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How are we supposed to promote the sport, or get new sponsorship into the game. When no one knows what format the leagues going to be for 2019. If us as RL fans aren't sure what's happening, what format it's going to take, with the new season just over 6 weeks away. How can we get new long term sponsorship.? How can lower SL clubs progress if they're not sure if they'll be there or not? Weather it's p&r, carry on with the 8'same or licencing. We should now know.'"
]

This is spot on.
There should be a clear plan to progress the sport and then allow those that are able, to get on and take us to "the promised land".
Another French club in SL would be ok and one would expect this to help the ailing French National side.
However, the inclusion of any North American clubs is a pure leap of faith.
The logistics are far from straight forward and "we" see to be hoping it will bring some benefits rather than there being ant certainty.
Yes, it would boost RL in N America but, it has the potential to massively de-stabilise our domestic game, which is not exactly setting the world alight.
Quite simply, if we cant secure sufficient extra funding from Sky (or any other broadcaster), I dont believe that we should be continuing with the N American experiment.
IF, on the other hand, we are sat with the promise of greater sponsorship and a Us/Canadian TV deal, then, yes, lets go for it and realistically, the only way that it can work is for the "expansion clubs" to be protected from relegation, which probably means the return of franchising/licensing.

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[quote:18jc6kzm]I wish everyone would read bramleyrhino's post two or three times just to get it through some thick skulls[/quote:18jc6kzm] [quote:18jc6kzm]Mr bramleyrhino speaks a lot of sense.[/quote:18jc6kzm] [quote="Jamie Jones-Buchanan":18jc6kzm]"I'd never forgive myself if a child of mine was born in Lancashire.[/quote:18jc6kzm]:1506.jpg



Quote: Budgiezilla "Featherstone could, you are WRONG....expansion lover'"


I'd be interested to see your working out on that one. How would Featherstone develop the revenue, the commercial income, the ticket revenue and the talent required to become a sustainable, competitive and above all, growing, Super League club?

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[quote:18jc6kzm]I wish everyone would read bramleyrhino's post two or three times just to get it through some thick skulls[/quote:18jc6kzm] [quote:18jc6kzm]Mr bramleyrhino speaks a lot of sense.[/quote:18jc6kzm] [quote="Jamie Jones-Buchanan":18jc6kzm]"I'd never forgive myself if a child of mine was born in Lancashire.[/quote:18jc6kzm]:1506.jpg



Quote: luke ShipleyRed "How are we supposed to promote the sport, or get new sponsorship into the game. When no one knows what format the leagues going to be for 2019. If us as RL fans aren't sure what's happening, what format it's going to take, with the new season just over 6 weeks away. How can we get new long term sponsorship.? How can lower SL clubs progress if they're not sure if they'll be there or not? Weather it's p&r, carry on with the 8'same or licencing. We should now know.'"


I also agree on this. We're six weeks away from the start of the season and, as of yet (unless the future is known privately), nobody knows what the model is in the immediate term, never mind the medium and long term.

My worry is that the RFL is simply trying, once again, to appease all parties - who are all pulling in different directions based on the needs of their clubs, the size of their markets and the state of their on and off-field situations. It's right that they want to protect their interests, but this is where leadership from the RFL.

Ultimately, what is needed is for the RFL to say "this is the model we are persisting with, this is the minimum standard you have to meet today, and these are the minimum standards you need to reach in a year, three years, five years, and ten years." You can address a failure to meet those standards in a number of ways - you can have an absolute criteria (meet the standard or you're out if somebody else does), or make aspects of central funding performance-related, for example.

It will upset some people, but the current system isn't making anyone happy.

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Hull KR the pride of East Hull.:



Quote: wrencat1873 "How are we supposed to promote the sport, or get new sponsorship into the game. When no one knows what format the leagues going to be for 2019. If us as RL fans aren't sure what's happening, what format it's going to take, with the new season just over 6 weeks away. How can we get new long term sponsorship.? How can lower SL clubs progress if they're not sure if they'll be there or not? Weather it's p&r, carry on with the 8'same or licencing. We should now know.'"


This is spot on.
There should be a clear plan to progress the sport and then allow those that are able, to get on and take us to "the promised land".
Another French club in SL would be ok and one would expect this to help the ailing French National side.
However, the inclusion of any North American clubs is a pure leap of faith.
The logistics are far from straight forward and "we" see to be hoping it will bring some benefits rather than there being ant certainty.
Yes, it would boost RL in N America but, it has the potential to massively de-stabilise our domestic game, which is not exactly setting the world alight.
Quite simply, if we cant secure sufficient extra funding from Sky (or any other broadcaster), I dont believe that we should be continuing with the N American experiment.
IF, on the other hand, we are sat with the promise of greater sponsorship and a Us/Canadian TV deal, then, yes, lets go for it and realistically, the only way that it can work is for the "expansion clubs" to be protected from relegation, which probably means the return of franchising/licensing.'"
]

The thing about America is that the market is already saturated with there sports. If you think NRL, College football, Baseball, MLS, Womens Football, ice hockey,basketball probably the college versions of these sports. Are all on the mainstream media outlets.

For us, an alien sport to get decent exposure over there on the back of one professional club is optimistic.
Yes there is a market there. But for us to get a foothold over there will take time. How much time and wether we give them that time is the question.

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There is another factor to be taken into account when we're talking about expansion in North America: rugby union. I see there are plans for a 9 team Major League Rugby competition (note the just "Rugby"icon_wink.gif in 2018. Mike Ford has signed to take charge of Dallas Griffins.
Once again, we will have to fight for space and recognition. I just hope the American rugby league promoters have more about them than Red Hall or the ventures are doomed.

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Quote: bramleyrhino "I'd be interested to see your working out on that one. How would Featherstone develop the revenue, the commercial income, the ticket revenue and the talent required to become a sustainable, competitive and above all, growing, Super League club?'"


Good article this is, expansion lover.

PROMOTING expansion or supporting the existing grassroots?


[iIt seems that this is the one question that constantly sends the game up a cul-de-sac and never really gets resolved to anyone’s satisfaction.

The argument raged again this week when it was announced that Toronto would forfeit their home game against Toulouse and play it as a curtain raiser at Magic.

You would have thought this game should be seen a positive – the punters get to see an extra game involving the team that seems on a headlong mission to Super League.

It will also, in a quirky way, bring in more publicity than sadly one more domestic fixture would not do.

However, that is not how it has played out across towns across the heartlands.

And just like when London Broncos and Paris St Germain leap-frogged Keighley to get into the inaugural Super League, or when Catalans’ elevation to the top flight and subsequent protection from relegation, there is a cry of preferential treatment.

The Magic selection is an interesting one - not least because Bradford Bulls had already been allowed to peep through the cracks of St James Park that weekend with their Championship 1 fixture at Newcastle.

If they wanted to sell more tickets and maybe boost rugby league in the north east (and I assume that was one of the early points of Magic) then putting that clash on would have killed two birds with one stone.

If handled well the Toronto experiment has the potential to bring something different to our game that is crying out for innovation.

But we still need a strategy to monetise their presence (and Catalans’ for that matter) rather than it being just another novelty outpost.

Not only that, those clubs need to grow the game and develop talent on their own patches not simply trawl the world — and the northern heartlands in particular — for off the peg talent.

Rugby league cannot afford to have too many teams — and I don’t mean just outpost organisations – creaming off talent without doing anything to top up the playing well.

If the game eventually withers in traditional heartlands — because their pro teams have been sidelined — then where are those players going to come from?

You can see why fans of say Halifax, Leigh, Featherstone and Batley can be irked by Toronto.

But the potential problem for the game is more long-term than simply a few noses being put out of joint.[/i

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[quote:18jc6kzm]I wish everyone would read bramleyrhino's post two or three times just to get it through some thick skulls[/quote:18jc6kzm] [quote:18jc6kzm]Mr bramleyrhino speaks a lot of sense.[/quote:18jc6kzm] [quote="Jamie Jones-Buchanan":18jc6kzm]"I'd never forgive myself if a child of mine was born in Lancashire.[/quote:18jc6kzm]:1506.jpg



Quote: Budgiezilla "Good article this is, expansion lover.

PROMOTING expansion or supporting the existing grassroots?


[iIt seems that this is the one question that constantly sends the game up a cul-de-sac and never really gets resolved to anyone’s satisfaction.

The argument raged again this week when it was announced that Toronto would forfeit their home game against Toulouse and play it as a curtain raiser at Magic.

You would have thought this game should be seen a positive – the punters get to see an extra game involving the team that seems on a headlong mission to Super League.

It will also, in a quirky way, bring in more publicity than sadly one more domestic fixture would not do.

However, that is not how it has played out across towns across the heartlands.

And just like when London Broncos and Paris St Germain leap-frogged Keighley to get into the inaugural Super League, or when Catalans’ elevation to the top flight and subsequent protection from relegation, there is a cry of preferential treatment.

The Magic selection is an interesting one - not least because Bradford Bulls had already been allowed to peep through the cracks of St James Park that weekend with their Championship 1 fixture at Newcastle.

If they wanted to sell more tickets and maybe boost rugby league in the north east (and I assume that was one of the early points of Magic) then putting that clash on would have killed two birds with one stone.

If handled well the Toronto experiment has the potential to bring something different to our game that is crying out for innovation.

But we still need a strategy to monetise their presence (and Catalans’ for that matter) rather than it being just another novelty outpost.

Not only that, those clubs need to grow the game and develop talent on their own patches not simply trawl the world — and the northern heartlands in particular — for off the peg talent.

Rugby league cannot afford to have too many teams — and I don’t mean just outpost organisations – creaming off talent without doing anything to top up the playing well.

If the game eventually withers in traditional heartlands — because their pro teams have been sidelined — then where are those players going to come from?

You can see why fans of say Halifax, Leigh, Featherstone and Batley can be irked by Toronto.

But the potential problem for the game is more long-term than simply a few noses being put out of joint.[/i'"


Firstly, I don't understand why you think "expansion lover" is some sort of insult. It really isn't.

Secondly. It's not a good article. It's a rant. For starters, it calls out expansion clubs for their contribution to the talent pool, yet there have never been more professional French players than there currently are.

If you're trying to convince me that Featherstone could sustain a competitive and growing SL club, you're failing miserably.

D-: Must try harder.

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Try telling that to a Keighley Cougars supporter.....expansion lover/football fan

The Cougarmania craze swept through the town in the mid-90s and crowd attendances increased to over 5,000. The head coach steered the club to promotion into the top flight but due to another re-structure within the leagues the Cougars were denied promotion (despite, some would argue, being an influential force in the creation of the Super League).

c020.gif c020.gif

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Quote: Budgiezilla "Try telling that to a Keighley Cougars supporter.....expansion lover/football fan

The Cougarmania craze swept through the town in the mid-90s and crowd attendances increased to over 5,000. The head coach steered the club to promotion into the top flight but due to another re-structure within the leagues the Cougars were denied promotion (despite, some would argue, being an influential force in the creation of the Super League).


Cant argue with the "wrongdoing" at the time regarding Keighley, they had earned their shot at the "big time".
However, at present, that is not the key issue.
The "game" has to decide where it wants to be in 5,10,20 years time and how to get there.

IF we close the doors to "expansion" and bin off Catalan, Toulouse and Toronto and tell them to go and do their own thing, would that be a positive for RL is either the UK, France or North America or, for the game as a whole ?

It's all about investment into the sport.

IF Toronto was to become a major force in SL and be the catalyst to the sport putting down proper roots in North America, having one less European club in SL would be a very small price to pay and if done properly, with some serious additional revenue coming into the game then, where is the problem.

Supporters of lower end SL and top Championship clubs will feel aggrieved that their club is being wronged but, a vibrant, prosperous sport has to be preferable to having 20 or so heartland clubs struggling to make ends meet and following a sport with less profile than womens netball.

We are so far behind Football, Rugby Union and cricket (and still losing ground) that something does have to be done or, we have to accept that we are a small time sport only enjoyed by middle aged blokes from former pit towns and eventually, we mat have to revert to amateur or semi pro status.
This might not be the end of the world for some but, personally, I always thought that RL was far, far, better than that.

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[quote:18jc6kzm]I wish everyone would read bramleyrhino's post two or three times just to get it through some thick skulls[/quote:18jc6kzm] [quote:18jc6kzm]Mr bramleyrhino speaks a lot of sense.[/quote:18jc6kzm] [quote="Jamie Jones-Buchanan":18jc6kzm]"I'd never forgive myself if a child of mine was born in Lancashire.[/quote:18jc6kzm]:1506.jpg



Quote: wrencat1873 "Cant argue with the "wrongdoing" at the time regarding Keighley, they had earned their shot at the "big time".
However, at present, that is not the key issue.
The "game" has to decide where it wants to be in 5,10,20 years time and how to get there.

IF we close the doors to "expansion" and bin off Catalan, Toulouse and Toronto and tell them to go and do their own thing, would that be a positive for RL is either the UK, France or North America or, for the game as a whole ?

It's all about investment into the sport.

IF Toronto was to become a major force in SL and be the catalyst to the sport putting down proper roots in North America, having one less European club in SL would be a very small price to pay and if done properly, with some serious additional revenue coming into the game then, where is the problem.

Supporters of lower end SL and top Championship clubs will feel aggrieved that their club is being wronged but, a vibrant, prosperous sport has to be preferable to having 20 or so heartland clubs struggling to make ends meet and following a sport with less profile than womens netball.

We are so far behind Football, Rugby Union and cricket (and still losing ground) that something does have to be done or, we have to accept that we are a small time sport only enjoyed by middle aged blokes from former pit towns and eventually, we mat have to revert to amateur or semi pro status.
This might not be the end of the world for some but, personally, I always thought that RL was far, far, better than that.'"


I agree with this. I really don't see why Budgiezilla has to throw around "expansion / football lover" (where the latter came from is only his guess) as its some sort of put-down.

I'm a fan of the sport first and foremost. I have my personal views on the state of the sport and I have my personal views on what I think needs to be done to address those issues. I've worked in marketing for a long time, and I've also worked with professional sports clubs, so I come from at least some position of experience.

I know my views don't always meet universal agreement, which is sort of what makes internet forums what they are, but I'm happy to put my reasons out there. If I felt that this sport could prosper by focusing its efforts in the heartlands, then I'll be happy, but my view is that the realities of modern sport don't allow that. Modern professional sport relies too heavily on television and commercial revenue, and we simply don't provide the audience that businesses want to (or at least, want to pay to) reach - that harms commercial income coming directly into the sport, and it harms our value to TV broadcasters. Yes, Keighley got shafted, but that was more than two decades ago. The realities of professional sport have moved on at a pace far greater than we have.

What I want is to see the best players possible, in the best facilities possible, and where those players are earning a fair income from their efforts. At the moment, we don't offer that. It's why we aren't attracting and retaining top talent, it's why clubs still aren't able to invest in facilities and why we have a salary cap that is around £1m less in real terms than it was in 1999.

The best way to address that in my view, given that the heartlands clubs clearly can't market themselves appropriately, is to tap into new audiences and new markets. Whilst America does represent a leap of faith, it is currently one of few viable options that we have.

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"I agree with this. I really don't see why Budgiezilla has to throw around "expansion / football lover" (where the latter came from is only his guess) as its some sort of put-down."

Sorry, I'll stop it now.....

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JESUS WEPT :WALL: HOW MANY TIMES????? £20 a ticket and £15 on beer and merchandise.....so an away fan is worth £35. At best, 1,000 is the average away support split across 11 rounds and I am being really generous here, so Toronto, replacing say Wakefield will cost a SL club £35,000. The minimum turnover of a SL club is £4,000,000 so Toronto instead of Widnes is worth less than 1% of a SL clubs turnover. There are many valid reasons for and against expansion into America, but "AWAY FANS" isn't one of them. :BEAT::d7dc4b20b2c2dd7b76ac6eac29d5604e_76030.jpg



Quote: Budgiezilla ""I agree with this. I really don't see why Budgiezilla has to throw around "expansion / football lover" (where the latter came from is only his guess) as its some sort of put-down."

Sorry, I'll stop it now.....'"

Well done Keighley....attracting 5 gates of over 5k for games against Bradford (9 miles) and Halifax(12 miles).....outstanding work.......but in terms of expansionism, as much use as a chocolate tea-pot d040.gif

What type of expansionism do we want......?
a/ Bigger TV deals and sponsors with very little substance and youth development and average crowds of 5k
b/ Youth development and more local interaction but with crowds in the 3/4k region?
c/ Billionaires throwing cash at the game but with no plan other than "if they watch it once they'll be hooked"?

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Looks like Toronto might have another "home" game here in blighty in 2018:-

https://www.halifaxrlfc.co.uk/article/5 ... fpack-away
Looks like Toronto might have another "home" game here in blighty in 2018:-

https://www.halifaxrlfc.co.uk/article/5 ... fpack-away


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Quote: Tigerade "Looks like Toronto might have another "home" game here in blighty in 2018:-


icon_lol.gif

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By the time Toronto play their first match in Canada in 2018 on May 5th half of their supporters will have lost interest!

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2139
Warrington Wolves Snatch Late ..
1871
Spirit of Rob Burrow Inspires ..
2194
Hull KR Drop Goal Secures Win ..
2278
POSTSONLINEREGISTRATIONSRECORD
19.6M 3,195 80,08514,103
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RLFANS Match Centre
 TODAY
     National Rugby League 2024-R19
11:00
Cronulla
v
Wests
     Womens Super League 2024-R8
17:30
WiganW
v
St.HelensW
     Mens Super League XXVIII-R17
20:00
LondonB
v
Castleford
20:00
Wigan
v
St.Helens
 TOMORROW
     National Rugby League 2024-R19
08:30
Gold Coast
v
Parramatta
10:35
Brisbane
v
St.George
     Womens Super League 2024-R8
12:00
York V
v
FeatherstoneW
     Mens Super League XXVIII-R17
15:00
Hull FC
v
Hull KR
15:00
Leigh
v
Huddersfield
       Championship 2024-R15
15:00
Whitehaven
v
Toulouse
     Mens Super League XXVIII-R17
17:30
Catalans
v
Salford
 Sun 14th Jul
     Womens Super League 2024-R8
12:00
Wire W
v
LeedsW
       League One 2024-R15
14:00
Newcastle
v
Hunslet
     Womens Super League 2024-R8
14:00
Hudds W
v
BarrowW
       Championship 2024-R15
15:00
Batley
v
Barrow
15:00
Bradford
v
Wakefield
15:00
Halifax
v
Featherstone
15:00
Sheffield
v
Swinton
15:00
Widnes
v
Dewsbury
15:00
York
v
Doncaster
ALL SCORES PROVIDED BY RLFANS.COM (SETTINGS)
Matches on TV
Fri 12th Jul
SL
20:00
LondonB-Castleford
WSL2024
17:30
WiganW-St.HelensW
SL
20:00
Wigan-St.Helens
Sat 13th Jul
SL
15:00
Hull FC-Hull KR
SL
15:00
Leigh-Huddersfield
SL
17:30
Catalans-Salford
Wed 17th Jul
SOO
11:05
Queensland-New South Wales
Sat 17th Aug
SL
18:00
Warrington-Leeds
SL
15:30
Wigan-St.Helens
SL
13:00
Hull FC-LondonB
Sun 18th Aug
SL
13:00
Leigh-Salford
SL
15:30
Catalans-Hull KR
SL
18:00
Huddersfield-Castleford
Sun 27th Oct
MINT2024
14:30
England M-Samoa M
Sat 2nd Nov
MINT2024
14:30
England M-Samoa M
Thu 11th Jul
NRL 19 Dolphins36-28Souths
SL 17 Warrington30-18Leeds
Sun 7th Jul
NRL 18 Sydney42-12St.George
NRL 18 Canberra12-16Newcastle
SL 16 Salford22-20Hull FC
CH 14 Dewsbury16-20Doncaster
CH 14 Featherstone66-0Whitehaven
CH 14 Swinton24-12Widnes
CH 14 Wakefield34-12Batley
CH 14 York54-12Barrow
L1 14 Newcastle0-44Workington
L1 14 Crusaders18-32Midlands
L1 14 Keighley20-20Rochdale
WSL2024 7 Wire W10-32Hudds W
WSL2024 7 York V44-0BarrowW
Sat 6th Jul
NRL 18 Canterbury13-12NZ Warriors
NRL 18 Wests28-40Melbourne
NRL 18 NQL Cowboys20-22Manly
SL 16 Hull KR14-16Catalans
SL 16 Leeds17-16LondonB
This is an inplay table and live positions can change.
Mens Betfred Super League XXVIII ROUND : 1
 PLDFADIFFPTS
Wigan 15 427 170 257 26
Warrington 17 436 231 205 24
St.Helens 16 429 170 259 22
Hull KR 16 397 217 180 22
Salford 16 317 308 9 22
Catalans 16 304 234 70 20
 
Leeds 17 309 316 -7 18
Huddersfield 16 298 365 -67 12
Leigh 15 270 250 20 11
Castleford 16 246 435 -189 9
Hull FC 16 218 496 -278 4
LondonB 16 156 615 -459 2
This is an inplay table and live positions can change.
Betfred Championship 2024 ROUND : 1
 PLDFADIFFPTS
Wakefield 14 520 154 366 28
Sheffield 14 382 217 165 22
Bradford 14 353 230 123 19
Toulouse 13 344 186 158 17
Widnes 14 327 269 58 15
Featherstone 14 396 283 113 14
 
Doncaster 14 257 341 -84 13
York 15 339 305 34 12
Batley 14 217 320 -103 12
Swinton 14 284 344 -60 10
Halifax 14 270 405 -135 10
Whitehaven 14 266 424 -158 10
Barrow 13 215 393 -178 10
Dewsbury 15 184 439 -255 2
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