FORUMS > The Virtual Terrace > Why has RL never taken off in Manchester and Liverpool? |
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| Quote: Mash Butty "I blame panini'"
Damn right ......
They deliberately under produced the Gold & Silver foil Club badges to flog more stickers to unsuspecting 10 year olds.
It's a swizz i tell ya .... a SWIZZ !!!
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[quote="bUsTiNyAbALLs":9q9d2t35]Do not converse with me you filthy minded deviant.[/quote:9q9d2t35]
[quote="vastman":9q9d2t35]My rage isn't impotent luv, I'm frothing at the mouth actually.[/quote:9q9d2t35]: |
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| Quote: Uncle Rico "I agree that clubs should expand their marketing territory, or rather not be restricted by it, but, there will be limited value to it as there isn't the interest, or are pointing the finger at say Saints and Widnes for a lack of RL interest in Liverpool? Maybe they should relocate to the city test that interest, take a chance on alienating their core business for a 'golden shot' at the big time? It's about budget, time and effort for tangible rewards and I don't think that the rewards are there, or the budget.
Yes, Manchester United a team that was based in Manchester and moved to Trafford....admittedly a successful model, but, not really fair comparative, given that they attract an average attendance equivalent to the whole of SL. In a significantly more high profile sport, they aren't even a fair comparison to the vast majority of worldwide football clubs. In reality, I don't think that Manchester United market themselves with an emphasis on the Manchester, they've gone beyond that and probably why they are a success in Trafford and far flung places like China'"
Whether they are in or out of the city is irrelevant to whether they can encompass the city. This is the parochial mindset that yokes us. Manchester are Manchester, liverpool are liverpool, Leigh are Leigh, Wigan are Wigan It isnt true. Manchester United arent in Manchester, yet the sell not only to people in Manchester and the surrounding area, but to people all over the country. And not only to people all over the country but to people who have never been within 5000 miles of Manchester.
its not that Man Utd can do the things they do because of the size they are, they are the size they are because they do the things they do.
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[quote="bUsTiNyAbALLs":9q9d2t35]Do not converse with me you filthy minded deviant.[/quote:9q9d2t35]
[quote="vastman":9q9d2t35]My rage isn't impotent luv, I'm frothing at the mouth actually.[/quote:9q9d2t35]: |
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| Quote: Cronus "I've lived in Manchester most of my life and rarely do United 'sell themselves' around here, except a few campaigns in the MEN and the Tevez billboard. They don't generally need to (unless the occasional European game is selling short). Their sponsors, 'partners' and the media will do it for them.
I have, however, seen Salford marketing themselves far and wide, especially since Koukash took the helm. It's certainly not true to say they sell only in Salford. Far from it - they've targeted a wide catchment and are active on the radio, in local press and via other means including social media and mailshots.
'" Salford and Man Utd are at different stages of their lifecycle, you would expect their marketing to take different forms.
Quote: Cronus "For all practical purposes, 'Manchester' is the area within and bordering the M60 (sorry, Salford); the defined borders mean very little in reality. Except for a small hardcore in the Salford and Swinton area there is almost no interest in the game. A scattered passing interest, perhaps, but not much. Football areas are football areas and you haven't a cat in hell's chance of breaking in. But then there are other demographics people forget. A huge Jewish community in North Manchester. Enormous Asian (and other immigrant) communities in more areas than I can probably name. The large Afro-Caribbean community centred around Moss Side. A massive student population, many hailing from non-RL areas and many of whom remain in Manchester to live & work after university. Then there are areas such as Wythenshawe...though the less said about those the better. So there you have huge swathes of the population with - again, for all practical purposes - absolutely no interest in or indeed awareness of the game. The 'traditional' RL audience in Manchester is limited, so new inroads need to be found.'" Large Asian and Student populations? like Headingley? Large Afro-Caribbean community like Chapeltown, birthplace of the black pearl, added to a whole long history of RL players of Afro-Carribean Origin from all over the country. You tell me that RL can't break in to the Jewish population in Manchester while for years other clubs would make anti-semitic chants at Leeds because of the links with the Jewish Community.
Albert Rosenfeld was a Jew playing RL a hundred years ago, Billy Boston was a welshman of Afro-irish origin playing RL 60 years ago, Ellery Hanley is a yorkshireman of Jamaican origin who was playing RL 30 years ago and who became the first black man to coach a british national side 20 years ago. There has never been a traditional RL audience.
Quote: Cronus "It has to start in the schools but that's a challenge in itself. A friend of mine coaches sport at a college nearby. He's a football man but also loves RL and when the Head of Sport decided the college would coach and play RU, it was simply due to funding and support from the RFU, who send development officers into colleges to help out. Some of the Sport England funding would do well bringing back the RFL development officers of a few years ago who were doing similar and making some strong inroads, including converting the school the Bury Broncos had moved to. Invest, invest and invest in get kids playing throughout their school lives and you have players and fans at the ready. Then you can start to think about cracking big cities who frankly don't care about RL.'" Schools are hugely important to the overall health of the game, but expecting schools and youth rl to drive attendance is simply the wrong way round.
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| Quote: SmokeyTA "Salford and Man Utd are at different stages of their lifecycle, you would expect their marketing to take different forms.'"
What are you blathering on about? You said Salford only market themselves in Salford while United go all over Manchester 'selling' themselves, neither of which is true. Make your mind up.
Quote: SmokeyTA "Large Asian and Student populations? like Headingley? Large Afro-Caribbean community like Chapeltown, birthplace of the black pearl, added to a whole long history of RL players of Afro-Carribean Origin from all over the country. You tell me that RL can't break in to the Jewish population in Manchester while for years other clubs would make anti-semitic chants at Leeds because of the links with the Jewish Community.
Albert Rosenfeld was a Jew playing RL a hundred years ago, Billy Boston was a welshman of Afro-irish origin playing RL 60 years ago, Ellery Hanley is a yorkshireman of Jamaican origin who was playing RL 30 years ago and who became the first black man to coach a british national side 20 years ago.'"
Deary me. Apples and pears and you know it. Whether Leeds has Jewish links is irrelevant. We're talking about Manchester and the fact is that for all intents and purposes the Jewish population of Manchester currently has NO interest in rugby league. Neither has the Afro-Caribbean population. Or the Pakistani/Asian population. Or most of the student population. Or in fact most of the population.
Neither did I say RL couldn't break into the Jewish population of Manchester although now you mention it, I do think it would be next to impossible to make any significant inroads.
Oh, and the ethnicity of a handful of players is utterly irrelevant.
Quote: SmokeyTA "There has never been a traditional RL audience.'"
There hasn't?
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[quote="bUsTiNyAbALLs":9q9d2t35]Do not converse with me you filthy minded deviant.[/quote:9q9d2t35]
[quote="vastman":9q9d2t35]My rage isn't impotent luv, I'm frothing at the mouth actually.[/quote:9q9d2t35]: |
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| Quote: Cronus "What are you blathering on about? You said Salford only market themselves in Salford while United go all over Manchester 'selling' themselves, neither of which is true. Make your mind up.'" There are different forms of marketing, applicable to the different stages a business goes through. Man Utd and Salford are at different stages. The when and where can be similar, the how different.
Quote: Cronus "Deary me. Apples and pears and you know it. Whether Leeds has Jewish links is irrelevant. We're talking about Manchester and the fact is that for all intents and purposes the Jewish population of Manchester currently has NO interest in rugby league. Neither has the Afro-Caribbean population. Or the Pakistani/Asian population. Or most of the student population. Or in fact most of the population
Neither did I say RL couldn't break into the Jewish population of Manchester although now you mention it, I do think it would be next to impossible to make any significant inroads.
Oh, and the ethnicity of a handful of players is utterly irrelevant.'" Pretty clearly, Judaism, an Afro-Caribbean community, a large student population, a large Asian population, are not disqualifying factors for a successful Rugby League club. These 'demographic barriers you suppose are irrelevant nonsense. We have our largest club based in a city with the third largest Jewish population in the country, in the the heart of the cities student population, within walking distance of no less than 4 universities. We have one of our other biggest clubs based in a city with 26% of its citizens are from Asian origin. No demographic is excluded or incompatible with our game.
Our game has a long and proud history of black-british and Afro-Caribbean players, what are you suggesting is the reason we have had success bringing through these players if not that the game is and can be popular within that community?
Quote: Cronus "There hasn't?
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| Quote: SmokeyTA "There are different forms of marketing, applicable to the different stages a business goes through. Man Utd and Salford are at different stages. The when and where can be similar, the how different.'"
Again, what are you wittering on about? Your original statement was entirely wrong and you're hiding behind blithering codswallop. Still haven't acknowledged that I see.
Quote: SmokeyTA "Pretty clearly, Judaism, an Afro-Caribbean community, a large student population, a large Asian population, are not disqualifying factors for a successful Rugby League club. These 'demographic barriers you suppose are irrelevant nonsense. We have our largest club based in a city with the third largest Jewish population in the country, in the the heart of the cities student population, within walking distance of no less than 4 universities. We have one of our other biggest clubs based in a city with 26% of its citizens are from Asian origin. No demographic is excluded or incompatible with our game.'"
And all of those communities are healthily represented at all Rhinos home games I presume?
Whatever, this may shock you, but Manchester is different to Leeds. Let me repeatOur game has a long and proud history of black-british and Afro-Caribbean players, what are you suggesting is the reason we have had success bringing through these players if not that the game is and can be popular within that community?'"
Yes, fully aware of our history. But it's completely irrelevant in the context of this discussion on Manchester. The city we're talking about, which is definitely not Leeds. Yes, of course RL can be popular within all sorts of communities - but IT'S NOT IN MANCHESTER. Which is sort of the topic being discussed. Do capitals help?
Quote: SmokeyTA "You said that driving attendance growth had to start in school. Does it start at school or not?'"
Nope. I didn't. Put on your glasses and try again. Reading will help.
Quote: SmokeyTA "Woah, look at you handing out slap-downs on the internets. Careful now.'"
Careful? You're dying a death here.
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[quote="bUsTiNyAbALLs":9q9d2t35]Do not converse with me you filthy minded deviant.[/quote:9q9d2t35]
[quote="vastman":9q9d2t35]My rage isn't impotent luv, I'm frothing at the mouth actually.[/quote:9q9d2t35]: |
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| Quote: Cronus "Again, what are you wittering on about? Your original statement was entirely wrong and you're hiding behind blithering codswallop. Still haven't acknowledged that I see.'" Its pretty simple. You pretending not to understand doesnt seem like a particularly smart way of getting the 'win' you're so clearly so craving.
Quote: Cronus "And all of those communities are healthily represented at all Rhinos home games I presume?'" Yes
Quote: Cronus "Whatever, this may shock you, but Manchester is different to Leeds. Let me repeat
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| Quote: SmokeyTA "Its pretty simple. You pretending not to understand doesnt seem like a particularly smart way of getting the 'win' you're so clearly so craving.'"
You saidYes'"
Prove it.
Quote: SmokeyTA "
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| Quote: SmokeyTA "Its pretty simple. You pretending not to understand doesnt seem like a particularly smart way of getting the 'win' you're so clearly so craving.'"
And here we have it , the old " you don't understand " insult , always turns up when the argument is lost
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//www.pngnrlbid.com
[quote="bUsTiNyAbALLs":9q9d2t35]Do not converse with me you filthy minded deviant.[/quote:9q9d2t35]
[quote="vastman":9q9d2t35]My rage isn't impotent luv, I'm frothing at the mouth actually.[/quote:9q9d2t35]: |
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| Quote: Cronus "You saidIt is true. YOU gave examples of it being true.
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//www.pngnrlbid.com
[quote="bUsTiNyAbALLs":9q9d2t35]Do not converse with me you filthy minded deviant.[/quote:9q9d2t35]
[quote="vastman":9q9d2t35]My rage isn't impotent luv, I'm frothing at the mouth actually.[/quote:9q9d2t35]: |
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| Quote: GUBRATS "And here we have it , the old " you don't understand " insult , always turns up when the argument is lost
I didnt say he didnt understand. On the wine early today?
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| Quote: SmokeyTA "I didnt say he didnt understand. On the wine early today?'"
Correct you said he was ' pretending ' not to understand , which isn't true , nobody has a clue what you're on about most of the time , because you talk bollox
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//www.pngnrlbid.com
[quote="bUsTiNyAbALLs":9q9d2t35]Do not converse with me you filthy minded deviant.[/quote:9q9d2t35]
[quote="vastman":9q9d2t35]My rage isn't impotent luv, I'm frothing at the mouth actually.[/quote:9q9d2t35]: |
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| Quote: GUBRATS "Correct you said he was ' pretending ' not to understand , which isn't true , nobody has a clue what you're on about most of the time , because you talk bollox'"
Oooh cutting. Razor sharp wit. Great to see the internet tough men out here throwing their weight around.
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54309_1552130516.jpg quote="Ruune Rebellion"]No. That’s what you said you idiot which is why you are sexiest lol. Give up you sexiest Imbecile[/quote]:d7dc4b20b2c2dd7b76ac6eac29d5604e_54309.jpg |
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| Smokey - I CBA quoting every individual piece of nonsense you've spouted on here but I'll highlight a few major points. Btw, my observations come from a guy that was born and bred in Salford and has lived here for 36 of my 39 years.
Manchester's diverse ethnic population.... has ALMOST no interest in Rugby League. I'm sure there are a FEW exceptions to the rule but that's the case in any sport. I was brought up in Higher Broughton, an area heavily populated by the Orthodox Jewish community. They have little to no interest in sport. As pointed out to you by Cronus, this is the same with Manchester/Salford's, Asian, Afro-Carribean, Polish etc communities as well. It would be great if they had an interest but they don't. We have a few student fans from Salford/Manchester Uni but again I would hazard a guess that a lot of those had at least a passing interest in some form of rugby before they first attended a Salford match. Salford moving to Manchester won't allow a new club to suddenly tap into this goldmine of new fans eager for a slice of the RL pie. A more consistent/successful Salford team will bring bigger crowds to Salford as we are seeing already this season.
The "Man Utd aren't even from Manchester" argument - Jesus f*cking Christ, are people still churning out this e?! It's a petty jibe that City fans normally throw out thinking it upsets Utd fans. Trafford is in Greater Manchester and the Old Trafford ground happens to be located around 3 miles from Manchester City Centre and on the doorstep of the heart of Salford (a massive football stronghold). Out of interest, how far is Elland Road from Leeds City Centre? Moving Salford to Manchester would just alienate hardcore Salford fans who associate with their hometown (home city) club and who would have no affinity to a Manchester based club.
Those fans who think franchising in Manchester is a viable replacement for Salford Rugby Club are the sort of fans who look down on us as they see us as small fry in the RL world. Small crowds, lack of any success for decades..... readily disposable (like Wakey etc) in Rugby League's pursuit of a formula that will bring the masses flocking in and turn us into some sort of super sport that Rugby League will never be.
Toulouse and Toronto are the way forward for now. Let's grow the French game and get behind what Toronto are trying to achieve as they could be the golden ticket to growing our great game, not moving an established club 5 miles down the road into a neighbouring city.
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| Quote: SaleSlim "Smokey - I CBA quoting every individual piece of nonsense you've spouted on here but I'll highlight a few major points. Btw, my observations come from a guy that was born and bred in Salford and has lived here for 36 of my 39 years.
Manchester's diverse ethnic population.... has ALMOST no interest in Rugby League. I'm sure there are a FEW exceptions to the rule but that's the case in any sport. I was brought up in Higher Broughton, an area heavily populated by the Orthodox Jewish community. They have little to no interest in sport. As pointed out to you by Cronus, this is the same with Manchester/Salford's, Asian, Afro-Carribean, Polish etc communities as well. It would be great if they had an interest but they don't. We have a few student fans from Salford/Manchester Uni but again I would hazard a guess that a lot of those had at least a passing interest in some form of rugby before they first attended a Salford match. Salford moving to Manchester won't allow a new club to suddenly tap into this goldmine of new fans eager for a slice of the RL pie. A more consistent/successful Salford team will bring bigger crowds to Salford as we are seeing already this season.
The "Man Utd aren't even from Manchester" argument - Jesus f*cking Christ, are people still churning out this poop?! It's a petty jibe that City fans normally throw out thinking it upsets Utd fans.
I will save Smokey the trouble...you just don't understand
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