It was never a red card for Ah Van. You see those types of tackles every game where the player tries to attack the ball carrying arm when he's coming from behind. Caught Charnley on the chin and was unlucky. The motion of the arm was down as opposed to upwards or across Charnley's jaw, which is crucial. Clumsy and just a pen imo.

Matty Smith kicking out was a clear red card. It was not in general play so it makes things worse as his intention is clear. The yellow card was a farce.

Joel Tomkins was just a massive embarrassment. If that was a saints player id be so angry.

You'd think after the grand final you'd look for redemption, but kicking players and starting brawls is not a great image for Wigan.

And this is the key thing. I know some posters who'll have reffed will say it's not as easy as it looks and I agree and it can be easy being an armchair referee.....but really tonight it didn't in anyway, shape or form look like a tough game to ref. Yet Child made it look like it was. Almost like a player whose comes through your academy and you have to start asking after a few years "will he ever make the grade".....the same should be asked of Child because he is just constantly poor. I dread the very real possibility of him someday being given a CC or GF to ref.

Fine, a petulant kick out.
I actually think the fact Hanbury(?) celebrated pretty much on Matty Smith's back let Smith off a bit. There is no excuse for that kick but Hanbury was being a dick also.

And there have been much softer red cards than a swinging arm to the jaw of a player possibly about to score a try. The fact it was a desperate tackle doesn't matter - he had the full body to go at, yet he went high with a swinging arm - reckless and it put Charnley out of the game. I don't know why people are underplaying it as much as they are.

Matty smith is a professional rugby player. He should be able to handle someone celebrating a last minute try.

I think the Smith one is like I said, a yellow. Hanbury celebrates, Smith gives a childish kick out, all a bit in the heat of the occasion (which was caused imo by Child reffing so poorly).....the worst offender is Tomkins. Like I said before he ran over like a kid whose had too much fizzy pop to drink charging around and it wasn't the first time. In the first half when the Widnes winger dropped the ball and he and another Wigan player are wrestling for it then Joel feels the need to charge over again.....I thought it was just a case a few years ago of charging over whenever anybody dare lay their hands on his precious Sammy but seems it's any teammate. The guy is a moron who'll end up costing them in a similar manner to Hock or Flower eventually.

Poor form from an ex Saints lad. He's gone native to Thugby League.

And worse still he was a late switch to my fantasy team so that will cost me.

Normally I would agree with you re the Ah Van incident, however I think with the new concussion rules in place this season, referees will have to send players off who attack the head and cause a player to get concussion.

Reason being is that under the new rules as I recall being described on Sky, it appears players have to leave the field for 15 minutes to be assessed.
If this is the case and all the offending player got was a stiff telling off from the ref, then players would be instructed to smack high profile players to get them out of the game.

As far as the Matty Smith kick. I thought a sin binning was right, it was petulant but not downright thuggery.
Joel Tomkins should however pick up a one match ban for running in and attacking a player.

So we're agreed than? Should've been a red?

And lol at anyone defending Ah Van's smash to the face. Good lord, imagine if that had been Hock.

Poor from Wigan for too many spells - too many errors and Williams needs to develop his attacking play (I'm sure he will, these things take time), but more crucially very well played Widnes, impressed me with their physicality and general play. And congrats on the events today and good crowd.

Yeah he should you're right. You probably know being a Saints fan that he's not the type to do that at all and he will be embarrassed by it.

Also agree on Joel Tomkins, he gets wound up and involved far too easily. I thought Union and one of his brothers leaving would've calmed him down but he oversteps the line too often. But he's nothing compared to Gaz Hock, at least he seemingly possesses a brain.

Ah Van's was a yellow at the very most. High shot, but seen alot worse get off with just a penalty! Funny how it's mainly Wigan fans that see it differently. Smith's yellow for chuckin' the teddy out was probably the right decision, but given the red that was dished out earlier I would say his offence was worse therefore more worthy of a red. You can't go round booting people when things don't go your way.

Wigan had the extra man, most of the decisions and even resorted to some mild thuggery. So well done Widnes, you deserved the point...if not 2.

As a leeds fan, I liked what I saw from that Wigan performance.

They should have had that game sewn up easily, looked like they were running away with it at the start

But the wigan players are so intent on being the big bad they react to everything, try to throw their weight about try to niggle and lose their discipline. Farrell has a push and a shove at every play the ball, Tomkins dives in at the slightest provocation. The pack doesn't just want to beat the opposition they want to dominate and bully the opposition pack but when they can't they seem to forget about winning and concentrate on their own personal battles.

Inability to keep a lid on it has cost them dearly in their last two games.

Worst ref in the comp, every game with him is stop start.

There is always a high tackle that gets penalised with a red card at the very start of the season, take Matty Bowen's much worst clothesline on Scott Grix in last year's season opener, that was a red card remember.......oh wait......

The RFL is always looking for match officials. If anybody thinks they can do a better job then contact the RFL.

Impossible to be a ref so far as some fans are concerned. Send one off? Ludicrous, mad, ridiculous etc. Don't send another off? Ludicrous, mad, ridiculous etc. Cannot win.

Ah Van wasn't really being malicious but here's the thing, if you take a heavy and reckless swing and end up stiff-arming a player to the jaw and knocking him out then you risk getting sent off. The old chestnut "he's not that type of player" doesn't really help. Paddy deliberately had a swing and took the risk. It didn't pay off. If he hadn't connected then he wouldn't have been sent off but rightly the consequences of fould play have a bearing. He put Charnley out of the game.

Smith was petulant and embarrassing, but it was hardly a full-blooded kick, he made contact and the player just sort of skipped over it. I would have put it on report as it probably is worth a match ban but it was pathetic rather than much else.

Tomkins running in and pushing a man onto his arris is hardly a big deal. Players run in too much and this game had too many handbags but if you send off every player that comes running in and pushes another player then that would be half the teams.

Some of you have completely lost perspective.