No, it isn't. I know a guy from Hackney who supports Leyton Orient. Not everyone who supports Chelsea lives in Chelsea. 'Marketing in some areas' would be the equivalent of having a team called 'Northern Raiders' based in Bradford, doing a bit of marketing in Leeds, some in Manchester, some in Liverpool and then expecting it to be a success. It isn't about limiting anything, it's about developing a realistic target market and stable foundations on which to build. By your logic, Super League should have 12 teams all called 'England Rhinos', 'England Warriors' etc, all trying to market themselves to the whole of England.

If anything, we're limiting ambition by only aiming to have one club in London, called London. The alternative is that we end up with 5 or 6 clubs all called London, all trying to market themselves to the whole of London and the whole thing becomes a total cluster.

London have in reality been promoted. They alone of all this season's SL teams will start the season with the benefit of potential fixtures against the mighty Bulls.

And? Would he not support them if they were called London? Does he support them specifically because he identifies with the Borough? No it wouldnt. That wouldnt be marketing in some areas, it would just be a shi1t marketing plan.

Why would they? Thats not my logic at all.

Somebody best get on to New York and Manchester and let them know what a cluster they have made then, those world renowned clubs must be so disappointed in their short sighted thinking.

Don't bother. It's not worth the effort. Smokey will continue to insist that every Premier League club in London is wrong and are restricting their marketing. That London is the same as Leeds. That Leeds are bigger than Hunslet because they're called Leeds. That the Carnegie situation is exactly the same as the Broncos. I wouldn't mind if he came from a knowledgable position but he doesn't as evidenced by his not knowing of his own clubs history and of the Carnegie situation. He then just disputes the facts over and over again until everyone gives up.
Then he'll tell you you're just limiting London's ambitions.
Smokey is the debating equivalent of an 8 year old sticking his fingers in his ears and sticking his tongue out.

The only one resorting to personal and ad hominem attacks is you. The only one who was trying to score points, was you. I of course knew Leeds Rhinos havent been Leeds Rhinos always, I still do not know what the relevance of an 19th century amateur RU club has to professional London RL in 2014.

But you stick to you ad hominem insults and pretend you have the moral high ground, There is probably someone somewhere who isnt smart enough to see the fact you have realised the irrelevancy of your examples and are now trying to get out of it.

Christ almighty it must be rocking at Headingley!

Good luck London, hope you get everything resolved. You'll love it in the championship, great, honest open competition which should be close next years, (plus there'll be no Leeds fans to bore the pants off ya!)

IMHO (for what it is worth) London's problem wasn't so much in the name but where they are based.

London has a massive population but it is also spread out over a wide geographic area, so basing themselves in South West London immediately alienates potential fans from East London, North London, etc. For example, travelling to Twickenham from East London involves two tube trains, an overground train and walking and can take between an hour and a half and two hours.

Travelling to Barnet's ground isn't much better - about the same journey time using three different tube lines and another 15 minute walk. Trying it from South London or West London is worse.

Driving to the grounds are usually a mission too - you either have to drive all the way round the M25 or across London itself (potentially through the Congestion Charge zone) which isn't for the faint-hearted.

To attract a decent level of support they need to be closer to the of London, somewhere close to good transport links that make it easier for all London (and Home Counties) based RL fans to get to and other amenities, e.g. hotels for away fans, etc.

The teams who have fixtures remaining v London are going to have a real boost to their points difference. Could hve a big say in that push for 7th/8th places.

So you've noticed that too? The "I must have the last word" brigade. Must be a hoot to live with!

Ad hominem attacks!
Oh deary me Smokey. You continue to pretend that black is white if you wish, continue to twist every point of every argument you enter into if you wish. It still doesn't mean you're right or you've won in some strange way. It just means people get bored from trying to debate any issue with you.
It was you who brought up Leeds, obviously without realising its history. Then when it doesn't suit you it's suddenly an irrelevant example.
It was you who brought up Leeds/Yorkshire Carnegie, obviously without knowing much about the reasons for its name change. Then when it doesn't suit you it's suddenly an irrelevant example.
It's you who continues to say a club cant appeal beyond its name, whilst ignoring every football club in London.
It's you who says anyone who thinks differently to you is "restricting London's ambitions".

A quick question, see if you'll answer it. Should Leeds call themselves Yorkshire Rhinos or can Leeds Rhinos appeal to the rest of Yorkshire anyway? Staying as Leeds is just restricting their ambition isn't it?

SmokeyTA rendering threads unreadable since Thu May 25, 2006 12:59 am

Beltin thread

lol...... ....yeah, let's get them playing out of Oxford Circus
Charlton, Brentford, Harlequins and even Barnet FC in the areshole division of UK soccer don't seem to have propblems attracting a level of support that alluded London Broncos over 19 seasons in the top flight.

As for East/North Londoners being alienated .......for that to happen, these people needed to know we ing existed, which they never did. Alienated East Londoners I lived in Brentford for years and never gave Orient or West Ham a second thought, but I despise QPR. The only part of London that is "worrying" is south of the river....and that's really just an old "black cab joke"

The various owners of the London SL team, with maybe the exception of Ian Lenegan shared one common belief. They believed that if you stuck posts in the ground and announced a KO time, then the fans would come. They repeated this season after ing season and the result is there for everyone to see.... they are currently playing out of a stadium that the RFL had to bribe the owner of to take them in and even he's said he wants another bung if we're to stay there next year.

I repeat.....name and now LOCATION are not the reason the club failed.....bad management and lip service from the RFL did that.

If you want to see how to "transplant" a sport into a new territory, look no further than the Melbourne Storm........but you can imagine the outcry in Featherstone and Dewsbury if the RFL/SKY said they were going to bankroll a london club with 3+ times the cash they give everyone else

I think he supports them because they're his local team. Leyton isn't in Hackney. I know a guy from Walthamstow who also supports Orient. People from the North of England support Arsenal and Chelsea. The idea that people wouldn't support a team because it was named after a more specific area than the huge region 'London' is ridiculous.

So they're called London, but not marketing to all of London. But keeping the name London because people from other areas might somehow hear about them and be interested enough to consider going, but if they aren't called 'London' then they wouldn't bother. Yeah, I don't really buy into that TBH. You're treating London as if it's an individual entity like a Leeds or Cardiff, when in reality people from London identify with London about as much as people from Leeds identify with Yorkshire, or people from Cardiff identify with Wales. In fact arguably less so.

You're claiming that marketing to a more specific area is 'limiting ambition'. In that case then why not have all teams trying to market themselves to everyone? You can claim that London is different because it isn't represented by other clubs but it is, London Skolars, Hemel would probably be in the target market and there will hopefully be other pro clubs too in the future. By your reasoning, the Broncos would have been better served calling themselves 'London and The South Broncos'. Or all clubs should have regional names, Warrington should be 'Cheshire Wolves' and Sheffield should be 'South Yorkshire Eagles'.

The city of Manchester itself is smaller than Leeds, and much, much smaller than London. Other places in Greater Manchester like Stockport, Bolton etc have their own teams. Also, Manchester United are supported mostly by people from outside Manchester, which pretty much invalidates the argument you're trying to present here.

You're seriously trying to compare the NFL teams in New York to Super League in London? Even the NBA team renamed themselves Brooklyn Nets. Come on. If you want to use a relevant example, Sydney, a city with under half the population of London, has 10 NRL teams, only one of them is called 'Sydney' and that's because they are based in the very heart of Sydney (equivalent of a London team based in the City of London). There aren't 10 teams all trying to market themselves to the whole of Sydney, because that would just be totally stupid.