FORUMS > The Virtual Terrace > Could Sam Tomkins get an early mark for his return to Wigan? |
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| Quote: ChrisGS "It's my opinion that a lot of Warriors fans have a view contrary to your own? Okay.
You clearly don't know what you're talking about.'"
That's just your opinion, don't try and recruit "a lot of Warriors fans" to validate what you think!
I think you're wrong!
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| Yes. He is absolutely awful. We're sorry for inflicting him on you. Please send him back. I'm certain that no other SL club would want such an embarrassment. I reckon we could help out there.
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| Quote: The Avenger "That's just your opinion, don't try and recruit "a lot of Warriors fans" to validate what you think!
I think you're wrong!'"
And you with your ratbag opinions of Matulino, Hurrell, Johnson et al are in a minority of one.
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| Quote: JEAN CAPDOUZE "Samuel Eli Tomkins has been a huge disappointment, according to Tony Smith's older brother, Brian, writing in Rugby League Week.
'"
i just hope that they don't want a proper full back like zak hardaker to take his place and show him how it should be done
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| A simple way of putting the whole Tompkins situation is that.
A.Super League is a LOT lower level to the NRL
B. Tomkins isn't Really a PROPER fullback, he's a halfback who's brilliant at running at defences while in space, he simply won't get that in the NRL as they are a level above.
c . Kevin Locke was a brilliant fullback for the warriors, and he has a lot to justify taking his place in the team, he's not doing himself any favours what so ever and a lot of the NZ and aussie press don't believe he's worthy of the full back spot.
basically if Locke hadn't had issues with the warriors Coach Tomkins would have been dropped by now, but the coach now has to stick to his guns to save face.
Saying that Sam could always come back to super dooper league play against far weaker teams and pretend he's one of the best in the world, but hey as long as he gets buy one get one free in revs in Wigan he's done good.
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| Isnt it Samuel Levi Tomkins anyway? Maybe Brian Smith is right about this Samuel Eli Tomkins?
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| For his first season I don't think he is doing that bad, and I have seen all the games. He will only improve and don't forget the game is far more intense over there. I don't think being stood up by Ben Barba is a career ending occurence otherwise half the NRL would be packing it in. If this time next year you can say he is not cutting then fair enough. As for the aussie media, they are as bad as any media, bad news sells.
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| Quote: JEAN CAPDOUZE "And you with your ratbag opinions of Matulino, Hurrell, Johnson et al are in a minority of one.'"
That's just pathetic Capdouze!
Why did I expect any better!
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| I'd tend to agree with Tomkins sympathisers with respect to his attacking play.
The Warriors halfbacks have individually benefited from having him in the team, but they have been really poor at making the best use of him for the team as a whole - they've been better at running him out of space, or simply not passing to him at all than they have in regularly making use of him on the fringes. We've seen glimpses of what he can do with the ball, and some of his play really is top drawer, but not enough. However, this is partly because of the way he's being used.
However, the main problem is that Tomkins is simply not a quality fullback in defence. His defensive efforts on high kicks and reading the play and getting himself in position in the defensive line are not up to scratch on a consistent basis. Either the Warriors live with those faults, or he'll need to improve dramatically or move into the halves where he won't be exposed in quite the same way.
Frankly you cannot get away at the top end of the NRL with such inconsistent (and sometimes downright awful) defence. When I've pointed out before that top NRL fullbacks are great attacking players, its not at the expense of being solid in defence - Slater is generally superb, Inglis pulls off some amazing saves, Hayne is great - the list goes on. They do make errors - sometimes very costly - but not at the rate Tomkins does, and they will generally offset that by making massive defensive plays later.
It also gets shown up for England against Australia - we just can't afford to give away tries for nothing against them, but I've yet to be convinced that under pressure Tomkins isn't highly likely to give away one or two soft tries. If Sinfield isn't picked I'd go with Tomins and Widdopp in the halves and Hardaker at fullback.
BTW, it is much easier for forwards to make the transition to the NRL - it should be as their job is much simpler.
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| Quote: The Avenger "That's just pathetic Capdouze!
Why did I expect any better!'"
Because you only expect the best from me, and you have a right to such expectations.
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| Quote: BrisbaneRhino "I'd tend to agree with Tomkins sympathisers with respect to his attacking play.
The Warriors halfbacks have individually benefited from having him in the team, but they have been really poor at making the best use of him for the team as a whole - they've been better at running him out of space, or simply not passing to him at all than they have in regularly making use of him on the fringes. We've seen glimpses of what he can do with the ball, and some of his play really is top drawer, but not enough. However, this is partly because of the way he's being used.
However, the main problem is that Tomkins is simply not a quality fullback in defence. His defensive efforts on high kicks and reading the play and getting himself in position in the defensive line are not up to scratch on a consistent basis. Either the Warriors live with those faults, or he'll need to improve dramatically or move into the halves where he won't be exposed in quite the same way.
Frankly you cannot get away at the top end of the NRL with such inconsistent (and sometimes downright awful) defence. When I've pointed out before that top NRL fullbacks are great attacking players, its not at the expense of being solid in defence - Slater is generally superb, Inglis pulls off some amazing saves, Hayne is great - the list goes on. They do make errors - sometimes very costly - but not at the rate Tomkins does, and they will generally offset that by making massive defensive plays later.
It also gets shown up for England against Australia - we just can't afford to give away tries for nothing against them, but I've yet to be convinced that under pressure Tomkins isn't highly likely to give away one or two soft tries. If Sinfield isn't picked I'd go with Tomins and Widdopp in the halves and Hardaker at fullback.
BTW, it is much easier for forwards to make the transition to the NRL - it should be as their job is much simpler.'"
Good post.
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| I must have missed a couple of pathetic attempted tackles by Jarryd Hayne at Melbourne yesterday - particularly on Hinchcliffe for the Norrie try. Also, how he somehow managed to fumble the ball backwards 15m and then dead despite no-one being within 30m of him.
But, of course, he is a superstar and beyond criticism. Tomkins is fine. A bit low on confidence but trying his heart out. He has shown moments of brilliance and it will come good for him for sure.
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| Quote: Shoe Shine Johnny "
But, of course, he is a superstar and beyond criticism. Tomkins is fine. A bit low on confidence but trying his heart out. He has shown moments of brilliance and it will come good for him for sure.'"
My feelings too.I expect him to have a much better second half to the season and with a good pre season be a real star next year. Because he is a pom going over with a big rep. and on the big bucks he was always going to be big time under the micro scope, hell he was being written off on here after his first couple of games when the Warriors were awful as a team but because Sam couldn't step up and win it all on his own he is a flop! since then he has done some nice things on attack and yes his defence needs to improve but im backing him to get it right.
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| His defense needs to improve?
He is 25 years old, hardly a Rookie, he either has the defensive skills or he doesn't, its unlikely his defensive awareness or tackling skills will improve with a couple of one on ones with the Coach.
He should be in his prime years right now, isn't he the best of a generation?
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| Quote: Buggo "His defense needs to improve?
He is 25 years old, hardly a Rookie, he either has the defensive skills or he doesn't, its unlikely his defensive awareness or tackling skills will improve with a couple of one on ones with the Coach.
He should be in his prime years right now, isn't he the best of a generation?'"
Remember this guy was a half-back who was moved to full back by Michael Maguire. He is not the most assured in that position but gets by through quick thinking. For England as much as anyone, I would like to see him play at 6. His handling game should be used much more by the Warriors. I think the biggest problem is that Townsend is not a great player and Johnson really struggles sticking with any structured game plans.
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