Well I've just enjoyed watching the QPR fans celebrating mediocrity on MOTD

You dont have talk some crap

And F*** 'em up

Needs to be added to the chant

Would you chant 'We are second bottom', or 'We didn't come last'? Or 'We are below average'? Or even 'We are 4th'? No. 'We are the champions' and 'We are top of the league' make sense, if an unfancied team overachieved for example by making the play-offs then a chant relating to that would make sense, but celebrating not being the absolute worst is totally backwards. What's even more worrying is that some people seem to be too stupid to comprehend that celebrating individual victories and successes is different to celebrating a mediocre league finish.

What you are too stupid to comprehend is that clubs have different targets and during the course of a season those targets change, so with a few games left a team a couple of places above potential relegation start to see safety as a viable target

As has just been pointed out the gap between the top 2 in the premiership is bigger than the gap between the bottom 10 , and now we get to view the Championship show and the pursuit of promotion

So you can argue about the relative values of no P and R all you want, it is and always will be a poor relation to it

What a load of rubbish, its all relative. When KR beat Salford away which pretty much meant they stayed up, it was one of the best atmospheres I have been at. Should I have just clapped off the team and said "your still the second worst team in the league so don't bother celebrating"

"We are staying up" is about the fact that your club has earned the right to play in the top league for another season. Strictly speaking 2nd bottom in SL is a higher finish than top of NFP / NL1 / CC and both earned the right to play in SL.

The fact that a team was put in a position which meant that finishing second bottom was considered a remarkable achievement sums up everything that was wrong with automatic P&R. If there was no P&R, you wouldn't have been chanting 'We are second bottom'. It's no achievement, other than the fact that the old system of P&R was so illogical that finishing second bottom was actually a great result and massive overachievement for a promoted club.

Again, if a team's target is to avoid finishing bottom then there is something fundamentally wrong with the system. That aside, every team's goal should be to win their respective league, a Championship team earning promotion would have achieved that whereas a SL team avoiding relegation has simply avoided being the worst, they've still ultimately failed at their goal which should have been to finish as high as possible.

They were promoted the season before so do you think they should be realistically be aiming to win the league? I think any club would aim to stay in the league and slowly progress which they did

As Headhunter doesn't attend matches and get in and amongst the real fans it's no surprise that he posts crap like this. He has no clue. Typical armchair/Internet observer and all round general troll.

No, that's not what I'm saying, the fact that there was a team in the league who's only realistic goal was to avoid being the worst team (and even that was a massive ask) is wrong. But as you said, I don't really have an issue with a newly promoted team chanting about staying up because that was their only real hope, and for them staying up was an achievement because of the massive odds stacked against them. For any other team to celebrate narrowly avoiding relegation is nonsense, I remember hearing Wigan fans chanting in 2006(?) which was just stupid.

Every team should hope to make progress in every season. If you win promotion one year and stay up the next then that's a higher finish than the previous season. I can't see why progress shouldn't be celebrated.

As a fan of a team that has both stayed up on the last day and also been relegated, I can say that staying up was a HUGE achievement and well worth celebrating especially when after relegation we were down for a few years and also almost stopped existing.

If you were a proper fan you'd know this.

The only chants which bother me are ones which have an overly aggressive element. Often started as sectarian chants at sporting events I'd rather not attend.

We've all heard them, and I groan when our lot starts one up. I've no desire to shoot anyone and rugby league fans are a good bunch in general so I wouldn't describe any set of fans as scum. There is playful rivalry which drives the sport and then there is a plain bad taste bad example.