FORUMS > The Virtual Terrace > Super League clubs only £68.5 million in debt : a BBC investigation finds |
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| Quote: J O N N Y "Cheers George mate, keep banging that drum for TGG.'"
Wonder if he will get any freebies from Twickers H.Q?
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Do you think if I email r.j.wilson@shu.ac.uk "financial expert" he will provide me with the data he used to form his sensationalist headline?
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Do you think if I email r.j.wilson@shu.ac.uk "financial expert" he will provide me with the data he used to form his sensationalist headline?
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Quote: TrentBarrett "Do you think if I email
I was thinking the same thing - a desperately ill-informed piece of scaremongering, completely missing any context or meaning behind the big scary numbers.
Poor show by all concerned; I'd suggest @georgeyboy stick to reading out the scores on 5 Live - investigative journalism is clearly not one of his strengths.
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Quote: TrentBarrett "Do you think if I email
I was thinking the same thing - a desperately ill-informed piece of scaremongering, completely missing any context or meaning behind the big scary numbers.
Poor show by all concerned; I'd suggest @georgeyboy stick to reading out the scores on 5 Live - investigative journalism is clearly not one of his strengths.
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| Quote: NtW "I'm not fully up to speed on Saints' specific situation, but I would be surprised if the Directors have bank rolled this, and expect these are external loans - though I thought Tesco were involved, and paying for a large portion/funding was coming from sale of KR, so maybe Saints aren't carrying any debt re the new stadium? I'm pretty sure Warrington aren't, as Tesco paid for our ground
Tesco didn't help to fund Langtree Park at all but I am quite sure the company contributed towards the cost of the site cleansing and the archeological/other scientific stuff that had to be done before building work could start, just as I'm sure Saints contributed, although the primary funders for that element of the work were the now defunct NWDA plus St Helens Council. The Council also landscaped the site and paid for the bridge linking the site to the town centre plus the lighting and pathway construction. Tesco paid for Tesco to be built; Saints paid for Langtree Park to be built - in part from the sale of Knowsley Road, perhaps with unknown investments also but definitely with the assistance of director loans. One loan alone was £3 million, but that was to pay for all the fit out. I think Saints ran out of money at the end! I get the impression the stadium turned out to be more expensive than it was scheduled to be.
Without Tesco, it is unlikely Saints could have built the stadium but the opposite also applies. Without both those developments taking place, it would not have been financially possible for the site to have been developed as the Council could not have justified the outlay and the NWDA would not have been attracted to the project.
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| Meanwhile, the Inside Out programme was just a cheap shot by the BBC. I have no idea why they did it. I think journalists should hold the RFL and clubs to account but to do what they did on the launch day just came across as a tad vindictive. And the item itself wasn't up to much anyway. However, mud sticks. The Gruniad online has already picked up on it.
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Quote: TrentBarrett "Do you think if I email
He won't be able to. He's lost the cig packet they were written on.
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Quote: TrentBarrett "Do you think if I email
He won't be able to. He's lost the cig packet they were written on.
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| Quote: The Chair Maker "The links below may shed some light on the financial status of some of our clubs
That should come with a health warning really...
A word of warning to anyone using this information - be extremely careful what conclusions you draw. This is pulled from publically available information, and as with all privately owned sports clubs, the legal structures behind the clubs is likely to be complicated, and you are not seeing the full picture here.
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| To echo the sentiments of others here, that was a disgraceful piece of television, what a pretentious so and so Riley really is. Dare I say the BBC is a bit miffed at the RFL using ITV for their advertising campaign?
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| Couldn't agree more with the sentiments above. It seems to me they BBC have thought - hmm, RL clubs seem in a sticky spot (after Bradford & Salford), George, you're our RL man, go do a piece on it. Then he, and some other financially clueless bods have tried to pull a piece together, found a self-styled academic 'expert' (who is listed on Hallam's website under their media contacts section), who has given them some headline grabbing strapline. No self-respecting professional would have spouted the that he did; it was ill-advised, ill-informed, ill-intended.
I don't subscribe to the usual paranoia about RL's media coverage, and the same applies here - I just think this is out-and-out poor reporting of the worst kind.
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| Quote: NtW "That should come with a health warning really...
A word of warning to anyone using this information - be extremely careful what conclusions you draw. This is pulled from publically available information, and as with all privately owned sports clubs, the legal structures behind the clubs is likely to be complicated, and you are not seeing the full picture here.'"
I agree the main links are just giving a bit of an taster with snippets of info and not the full financial status, but they do link to the subsidiary and parent companies that such as Warrington have.
Drill down and you can view the actual accounts if you are so inclined which is what you should really be looking at , however even accounts can be structured in ways to hide things.
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| Quote: NtW "That should come with a health warning really...
A word of warning to anyone using this information - be extremely careful what conclusions you draw. This is pulled from publically available information, and as with all privately owned sports clubs, the legal structures behind the clubs is likely to be complicated, and you are not seeing the full picture here.'"
True, however I think most RL clubs accounts that I look at tend to give a decent broad picture as not many are bundled in with other operations - turnover levels tend to be just the operation of RL clubs and owned stadia so it gives a good indication and an understanding of direction of travel. At the margins you can chuck in all sorts of management charges etc that make the picture difficult to decipher but when looking at one year compared to another in the same company they are usually broadly understandable.
Comparing one club to another, especially on the Balance Sheet side is though particularly fraught with danger without knowing the full picture e.g. Headingley, excluding the East Stand, is in Leeds' accounts at a depreciated 1997 value (around £5m). This bears no relation to what the site is actually worth, either its value in use to the company or on the open market as a piece of property.
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Quote: TrentBarrett "Do you think if I email
We'll see - I've just e-mailed him. Will update people on here if he gets back to me...
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Quote: TrentBarrett "Do you think if I email
We'll see - I've just e-mailed him. Will update people on here if he gets back to me...
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| Its just cheapskate journalism knowing they can get away with it without any repercussions. If they tried that with a much larger influential governing sport body they would have been taken to task.
However there is concern that only 3 clubs have decent asset and book values in Leeds, Warrington and St Helens.
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| Quote: MjM "True, however I think most RL clubs accounts that I look at tend to give a decent broad picture as not many are bundled in with other operations - turnover levels tend to be just the operation of RL clubs and owned stadia so it gives a good indication and an understanding of direction of travel. At the margins you can chuck in all sorts of management charges etc that make the picture difficult to decipher but when looking at one year compared to another in the same company they are usually broadly understandable.
Comparing one club to another, especially on the Balance Sheet side is though particularly fraught with danger without knowing the full picture e.g. Headingley, excluding the East Stand, is in Leeds' accounts at a depreciated 1997 value (around £5m). This bears no relation to what the site is actually worth, either its value in use to the company or on the open market as a piece of property.'"
MjM, you're right, but obviously have some financial nouse to be able to work this out; the layman isn't. And the BBC have taken the BS approach (that's Balance Sheet, or Bull Sh*t, take your pick), which is as you say dangerous. £68m of debt - so what if you have £100m of assets?!
I'm seething over this...
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