The RFL have more chance of introducing English as an official language of France, then ever building up Wales to be competitive force. And even, if there was some truth in the potential of Wales, why not wait and use [iempirical evidence[/i till we have a substantial amount of Welsh players cutting the mustard in Super League? It doesn't take a genius to understand that no quality Welsh players domestically means no quality Welsh internationals. Playing England, or Australia will not change this, nor will it make the current crop of Welsh players any better, or more experienced for it.

The days of Welsh RL being superficially pampered with Union converts such as Devereux, Gibbs, Davies, Ellis, et al is over - and the fact Wales has gone back into the dark ages suggests there was never any substance underneath it all, to give rise to future generations.

In an ideal world, it would be great to have international RL on a level which meant Ireland, Scotland, and Wales could give as good as they got, but unfortunately we're a 100 or so years too late. These matches not only make the RFL look delusional, but most tragically of all, they're not even remotely passable for lowest common denominator entertainment.

I recorded the match as I was at work, watched first half hour and turned it off. England needed to play somebody, if only to get the group together. Whether that is the Welsh, French, Exiles or St Pats under 9's.

The main problem is the gulf in the teams. You have the Auzzies and Kiwis who are so far in front of the English, who are fimly cemented the third best international team in the world. Then there is a big gap between England and the rest of them. So England will either get whipped or but up a gutsy performance against the Aussies or Kiwis, or thrash every body else.

Clive Woodward when he was in charge of England RU insisted that the team did not play the three major southern hemisphere teams, just to build a winning mentality within the squad. However this would be difficult in rugby league due to the reasons mentioned in the paragraph above.

The Welsh team will come good but only after a few more years and only if they keep playing the welsh lads. If they revert back to playing the likes of Briers or Carvell then the Welsh public would lose interest and would lose the next generation of players.

The only way I can see the Europe international scene (Welsh, Scotch, French, GErman, Irish) teams to improve, is that SL players who represent these developing nations are exempt from the SC, just to encourage the teams to play these. But this could probably lead to more problems then solutions!

It showed England have some great individual players but Wales, after just a few days together, can string a series of passes down the backline far more impressively than us. That & McIllorum is a very average SL player.

Absolutely 100% spot on.

Let's get things clear, we didn't have much of a choice of opposition. We've picked the two best sides available. We've trained as hard as we possibly could for the tournament. We've taken it seriously. And because of this, we've given them a battering. This is positive. They had the killer instinct needed by top sides and played all the way through.

Wales didn't put up the fight we needed. But they are developing, and they need these matches occasionally for us to see where they are. Lets not forget they were in the Four Nations last year.

My gripe is the complete and utter lack of organisation and marketing of the tournament itself. Nobody knows it's on. Nobody seems to care, and I don't think that's because the games aren't competitive, I think that's because of the lack of promotion. You can promote anything if done right, yet the RFL seem to have just planned this on the back of a fag packet and announced it last minute. There was zero build up in the season because we didn't know what was happening! That's why the crowds are low. That's why interest is low. If the people in charge weren't interested, how can they expect anyone else to be?

Luckily, the World Cup seems to be planned and organised well, but I just don't see why they couldn't have put just as much effort into this as well? Or even just a little? We really need to look at the direction we want to the international game to go in because there is just no consistency at all.

Hang on Wellsy, Starbug is claiming we should have some sort of psychic power as to these things. We should instinctively know the dates and programme because "some internationals" are played "at this time of year".

Is this the same Kiwis that have only beaten us once on these shores in 10 years? Head-to-head, I believe it's something like 9-6 in our favour. But because they can occasionally beat the Aussies, they're so far in front of us? They've beaten them four times and drawn twice in the last 10 years. Just happens that 3/4 of them wins were in finals. We've beaten them twice.

I don't understand why people are that desperate to talk us down that they will even make up facts to achieve it. We're on a fairly even keel with the Kiwis. They struggle over here and we struggle over there. Where's the World Cup again?...

If that was how it worked, the Premier League would never need to be advertised as everyone just knows that it's on. And the SL. And many other events, etc.

But of course this isn't how it works, the vast majority of people need reminding/informing, and this hasn't happened for this tournament.

Eg-bleedin-xactly. I despair at the people who defend that spectacle appearing on national TV. Are the RFL on a mission to make sure we never find a decent sponsor?

Its lunacy. We let the assets we have wither and die whilst chasing fantasy schemes which as you rightly say ( from a St. Helens fan too, must be halloween) have no evidence or research behind them.

Before any new ideas we need credible leadership who understand strategic planning and the need for ( and implemenation of ) good research. We're currently run by complete chancers.

Dont ' act ' silly Chris, the poster who stated he didnt know the game was on also claimed to be a long term RL and International RL fan, so if he has attended England International matches in the past in this country, they would have been played 2/3 weeks after the end of the regular season , he had no excuse, if he genuinely wanted to attend

As for the value of the games themselves ? Probably pointless from an England POV

Like I've hinted to you:

I am a long term fan of both domestic and international RL.

I have been to internationals. With the plural.

I didn't realise it was on. Because nobody had really hyped it. I knew that we weren't playing Australia this year, but this match completely took me by surprise because I have other things on. So I am in his boat. I don't know why you don't understand this view.

Quite possibly the RFL were ever so slightly embarassed by what was always going to be a farce of an actual ' Competition ' , not a criticism, just the way it is

What if he (or people in his party) had already made plans? The fixtures weren't announced until last month. We didn't know if they'd all be away or at home.

I had no idea this tournament had started until 4
That's the spirit.

The other problem is that well, frankly, its just not an interesting match. Its a real shame we don't have a credible northern hemisphere international game, but trying to wish one into existence won't change that, and only serves to embarrass us. Tours were far better, but I don't blame the Aussies for being fed up of the English game. The only hope I see is an extension of the WCC to something akin to a champions league, to start building credible north-south rivalry.