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Quote: SmokeyTA "
Considering the salary cap has done neither of those things, it is pretty ridiculous to keep it in place, it hasn’t broken the stranglehold of the big clubs. Its just that one of them has been run poorly, and we have had three more ‘rich guys’ join the party. I find it strange that you argue so much on the financial prudence needed and how all clubs need to only spend what they have because were that the case, your club wouldn’t be in SL.'"


Without looking into the parallel universe where SL ran without a salary cap, we can't really be sure how well the SC has worked.

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Quote: Richie "

we can't really be sure how well the SC has worked.

'"



Nobody can be sure the Salary Cap hasn't adversely affected RL in this country.

I believe it has been a disaster for RL in this country (as has there being no automatic one-up, one-down promotion and relegation between the leagues) and I'd scrap it immediately in conjunction with introducing my other proposals for the structure of the game set out earlier on this thread.

My changes could all be introduced at the next meeting of the RFL - and as soon as they were announced would create a massive, overnight, boost for the game in all respects.

If my changes were introduced before the start of next season, I would allow a period of transitional arrangements - just to allow all clubs to honour all existing contractual commitments to players.

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Quote: Richie "Without looking into the parallel universe where SL ran without a salary cap, we can't really be sure how well the SC has worked.'"
we can because the aims of the salary cap are measurable, it was put in place as a talent distribution mechanism, we can safely say it has failed this respect due to the concentration of success, it was put in place to stop clubs going bust, it has failed in this respect because clubs have gone bust, and it was put in place to stop wage inflation which it has been massively successful because our players are sadly earning less now than pre-salary cap. We can measure the wc om its own merits and we don't need to draw a false dichotomy arguing the only option is this specific form of cap or no cap at all and measure the caps successes only relative to a hypothetical world with no sc at all

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not wanting to sound condescending but some of the smaller clubs need to merge in order to compete with the big clubs. some clubs are located in areas with relatively low population levels and will never get the 10k+ gates that is needed to have the financial clout of the likes of wigan & leeds etc regardless of having a salary cap or not.
but who would merge with a neighbouring rival.
the only way to level the field would be to lower the cap to the poorer clubs level, but that would lead to an exodus of our better players to nrl or union.
keep the salary cap and somehow allow the clubs in the bottom half to sign 1 young player per season on a two year deal from a top half side, with the club who first trained them having first dabs on them after the 2 years. no top half side would have to provide more then 1 player per season.
a bit like american footballs draft

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I wouldn't scrap it, I would enforce it from the bottom end. Probably only 50% of the superleague clubs, with the exception of London your top 6 finishers in the league are the full salary cap ones.
The lower clubs don't have the support or revenue streams to spend to full cap, these should not be given a license, sorry Salford and Cas fans.

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Quote: Judder Man "I wouldn't scrap it, I would enforce it from the bottom end. Probably only 50% of the superleague clubs, with the exception of London your top 6 finishers in the league are the full salary cap ones.
The lower clubs don't have the support or revenue streams to spend to full cap, these should not be given a license, sorry Salford and Cas fans.'"

So you have a 6 team league?

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Quote: Him "So you have a 6 team league?'"


No, would have minimum to maximum range. For example 1.0 to 1.5 million, if clubs can,t spend to that because of lack of income stream the standard of superleague will drop in various forms.
Once you get 12 teams spending to salary cap targets, you can then raise it to maintain stature of the sport.
The top 6 teams can can probably spend more and progress the sport, but they are being held back because the bottom 8 teams are stagnant and will veto any progress to the sport that involves extra expenditure.

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Quote: SmokeyTA "we can because the aims of the salary cap are measurable, it was put in place as a talent distribution mechanism, we can safely say it has failed this respect due to the concentration of success, it was put in place to stop clubs going bust, it has failed in this respect because clubs have gone bust, and it was put in place to stop wage inflation which it has been massively successful because our players are sadly earning less now than pre-salary cap. We can measure the wc om its own merits and we don't need to draw a false dichotomy arguing the only option is this specific form of cap or no cap at all and measure the caps successes only relative to a hypothetical world with no sc at all'"


We can't, because we don't know how we would have done against those measures in the parallel universe that didn't have the salary cap.

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Quote: Wooden Stand "Nobody can be sure the Salary Cap hasn't adversely affected RL in this country.'"


And nobody can be sure the salary cap hasn't positively affected RL in this country. So, what's your point?

Quote: Wooden Stand "I believe it has been a disaster for RL in this country'"


and some people believe in ghosts, and all sorts of other nonsense.

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Quote: SmokeyTA "Firstly, 10 of 14 isnt 80%. Secondly, operating at a profit isn’t always the aim, of all companies, at the same time. it is pretty naïve to look at profitability as the only measure of financial health.

St Helens don’t operate at a profit, they have posted some results which in isolation look pretty bad. But they have a huge shiny new asset which not only increases the chances of profitability for future years, but is a big shiny asset on the balance sheet on its own. Leeds as well, don’t look to post huge profits, with ‘management fees’ and loans to Carnegie often bring down the amount they show as ‘profit’. I have no doubt other clubs will have similar set ups. So again, it is pretty naïve to look at profitability as the only measure of financial health.

St Helens don’t operate at a profit, they have posted some results which in isolation look pretty bad. But they have a huge shiny new asset which not only increases the chances of profitability for future years, but is a big shiny asset on the balance sheet on its own. Leeds as well, don’t look to post huge profits, with ‘management fees’ and loans to Carnegie often bring down the amount they show as ‘profit’. I have no doubt other clubs will have similar set ups. So again, it is pretty naïve to look at profitability as the only measure of financial health.

Considering the salary cap has done neither of those things, it is pretty ridiculous to keep it in place, it hasn’t broken the stranglehold of the big clubs. Its just that one of them has been run poorly, and we have had three more ‘rich guys’ join the party. I find it strange that you argue so much on the financial prudence needed and how all clubs need to only spend what they have because were that the case, your club wouldn’t be in SL.'"


Ok if you want to be pedantic 71.4% of clubs are losing money! icon_rolleyes.gif

Yes most businesses will operate at a minor loss for tax purposes but I don't know of many that are happy or sustainable operating at 250k-1mill+ every year!

The salary cap hasn't had the desired levelling effect, arguably, due to not envy club spending it. Some are spending more, some significantly less. The day we see every club spending the same will be the day we see more teams competing for silverware. Look at the player movement from top to bottom clubs and compare it to SL player movements, there is your evidence.

My club has spent full salary cap every season since joining SL. If anything we may benefit more by having no salary cap than others as we have millionaire backers. I want to see a SL of 14 competitive teams all financially sustainable. P&r or removing salary cap would be major mistakes.

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Quote: JB Down Under "

My club has spent full salary cap every season since joining SL.

If anything we may benefit more by having no salary cap than others

P&r or removing salary cap would be major mistakes.'"


1 Your comments indicate that you don't really know what you are talking about on this; in this country, the current Salary Cap does not (as it happens) have anthing to do with how much you spend on players! It has to do with an RFL assumed value of the contractual arrangements clubs have with players.

2. Scrapping the Salary Cap provisions and introducing automatic one-up, one-down promotion and relegation betwen the leagues, with immediate effect, would be a massive boon to Rugby League in this country (which is up against competition from Soccer & RU).

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Quote: Wooden Stand "1 Your comments indicate that you don't really know what you are talking about on this; in this country, the current Salary Cap does not (as it happens) have anthing to do with how much you spend on players! It has to do with an RFL assumed value of the contractual arrangements clubs have with players.

2. Scrapping the Salary Cap provisions and introducing automatic one-up, one-down promotion and relegation betwen the leagues, with immediate effect, would be a massive boon to Rugby League in this country (which is up against competition from Soccer & RU).'"


1. Why do you believe that?

2. No it wouldn't.

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Quote: Richie "
1. Why do you believe that?

2. No it wouldn't.'"



1. www.therfl.co.uk/~therflc/client ... rt%205.pdf

2. Yes it would! We are trying to put in place a structure for professional Rugby League in this country that will enable the game to grow and develop so as to be able to compete and win at national and international level be be attractive and inspiring for young athletes, spectators and financial backers in equal measure.
Quote: Richie "
1. Why do you believe that?

2. No it wouldn't.'"



1. www.therfl.co.uk/~therflc/client ... rt%205.pdf

2. Yes it would! We are trying to put in place a structure for professional Rugby League in this country that will enable the game to grow and develop so as to be able to compete and win at national and international level be be attractive and inspiring for young athletes, spectators and financial backers in equal measure.


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how many clubs in rl in this country have the potential to get 10k+ gates(excluding the ones who already do, wigan,leeds,saints,warrington,hull fc, bradford n cats who are near enough)
apart from hull kr,huddersfield n wakey (and maybe cas)most of the others dont have the potential to compete at the top of the cap level.

105 posts in 8 pages 
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