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Quote: SmokeyTA "That isnt their sponsorship deal, it is their broadcasting deal.

Might work out as a positive for RL. BT are getting big into sport at the moment, they have a massive investment in sport to fill up their schedules.

They haven’t confirmed how they are going to structure and sell their channel, whether it will simply be on the sky EPG ala ESPN, or whether Sky customers will be unable to access it and it will stand alone on a BT platform.

If it is on a BT platform, there will be much much less access to it than we have with Sky, there will also be less RU shown in Pubs.

This would have a duel benefit of meaning over the next 4 years much fewer people will see RU, and those that do will probably see it much less regularly, with much fewer people stumbling across it.

The 2nd benefit will be that it will make RL more attractive to Sky, and also in 4 years when our tv deal runs out, a credible competitor to Sky for our TV rights.

If I were the RFL/SLE I would approach Sky, see if they want to spend some of the money they aren’t spending on premiership RU next year, and the European RU the years after, on more SL games and possibly, depending on the contract with premier sports, maybe pay for some championship games. Id also possibly speak to some production companies, see if there are any imaginative ideas ideas they have for RL related programmes. Sky will have a bit of time to fill.'"

Great post with some very valid points. I can't help but feel that the RFU have followed in Formula One's approach to taking more money but neglecting the fact their TV viewing figures will be greatly reduced. I'm currently envious of domestic Union having ESPN, Sky and ITV showing games live and in a highlights package their potential audience is prosperous.

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Quote: j.c "Isn't the sky deal for sle £95million over 5yrs?, and this RU deal is £152million over 4yrs?...how is that not massivley more?'"


It is massively more. And it's only for their premiership. Not internationals, not Heineken cup, (correction - not in first year), etc.

I accept all the usual bleating about the disadvantages we face in getting deals comparable to RU, but a) this is nothing to do with Internationals, and b) we need to learn something instead of making excuses.

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Quote: SmokeyTA "Yeah, who would use IMG to sell broadcast rights? nobody even knows who they are in the media industry. You wouldn’t catch the NFL, Australian Open, R&A, IRB et al working with them. Damn Fools.'"

They can only sell what they're given to sell. RFL can't say "we hired IMG, so now we take no blame for anything". If that's all you have to do, then my mum might as well run the RFL, all she needs is the list of sub-contractors and a telephone.

Him
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Quote: RLBandit "It is massively more. And it's only for their premiership. Not internationals, not Heineken cup, (correction - not in first year), etc.

I accept all the usual bleating about the disadvantages we face in getting deals comparable to RU, but a) this is nothing to do with Internationals, and b) we need to learn something instead of making excuses.'"

It's £27m a year for SL, Championships & Challenge Cup compared to £38m a year for Aviva Premiership & Heineken Cup. Hardly an earth shattering difference, especially given the difference in costs.
And you're right it's nothing to do with internationals, as Internationals aren't included in either deal.

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Quote: Cronus "I would expect RU clubs to get more. They have far more players for a start. 15 on the pitch and 8 replacements. Their first team squads seem to number around 50 players, whereas RL squads number around 35ish.

Then multiply that across Academy teams, youth development teams, etc and you've got far more expense based on players numbers alone, and then add in the additional physios, conditioners, etc those player numbers require. Then in addition, each team will probably have a head coach and coaches for the forwards and backs (VERY different specialist roles), and probably a kicking coach.

A very basic observation but still a not inconsiderable additional cost over a RL club.'"


Factor in the playing and coaching squads of 20 Championship clubs, and you have evened it up icon_wink.gif

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The TV money SL clubs recieve is enough to cover competitive squad in SL imo (1.32mil - 1.69 mil are the figures used on this thread) £1.5mil would be the average. Gate receipts, shirt sponsor, kit manufacturer, other sponsors, corporate money, grants and merchandise should be enough to cover staff wages and all other day to day cost imo as long as your chairman/CEO knows what he is doing so why clubs are reported to be on the edge of bankruptcy is beyond me.

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Quote: jarvis12345 "The TV money SL clubs recieve is enough to cover competitive squad in SL imo (1.32mil - 1.69 mil are the figures used on this thread) £1.5mil would be the average. Gate receipts, shirt sponsor, kit manufacturer, other sponsors, corporate money, grants and merchandise should be enough to cover staff wages and all other day to day cost imo as long as your chairman/CEO knows what he is doing so why clubs are reported to be on the edge of bankruptcy is beyond me.'"


It does make you wonder, doesnt it?

A simple formula would be to only spend 90% of your previous years income, any surplus could then be spent on marketing your club to increase turnover and therefore potential increase in spending

It shouldnt be hard should it icon_lol.gif , then again my club made a profit when playing in SL

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Quote: MjM "I suspect BT will get their fingers burned with this deal - haven't RU bounced between Sky and ESPN in the past? Sky are the major players and I would have thought the benefits in terms of exposure and viewing figures (even though obviously less than live terrestrial) of being on Sky would be a clinching factor if they were in anywhere near the same ballpark. Domestic club RU doesn't get the ratings and it's hard to see how this will pay off - but the people running BT might have some misconceptions about the popularity of the sport....

But I'm sure on the business plan they can make it stack up
Said just about all I wanted to say myself. They've got 38 Premier League football matches and now a load of rugby union. Football will get some to sign-up for the service. Not sure BT will attract enough with club union games to make it worthwhile.

I say this not a an RL fan, but no sport other than Premier League football will get the masses subscribing to pay for that and any ancillary deals. 38 games a year is nowhere near enough to do that.

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Rugby Union is massive in the UK - or at least the perception is. They call it "Rugby" on telly but they always mean Union.

League is a small northern sport which has a big final on the BBC once a year - Eddie Waring used to commentate on it, as well as It's a knockout.

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Quote: littlerich "Rugby Union is massive in the UK - or at least the perception is. They call it "Rugby" on telly but they always mean Union.

League is a small northern sport which has a big final on the BBC once a year - Eddie Waring used to commentate on it, as well as It's a knockout.'"



They call it rugby in Oz as well, they call games they care about Footy or Cricket. So let em av it, we'll be Footy or League!

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OK first point on this is that the criticism of the RFL of our deal is harsh. We signed ours a year ago. BT won't bidding for sports then, so the RFL were restricted in asking for larger payments. BT are new on the game and are a HUGE company, they have just as much money to throw at sports as SKY, they will be investing a lot money and will be prepared to lose a lot of money at first to get customers signed up. They need marquee sports to get people signed up and will pay over the odds for it. Also what happens when two people want something? They start bidding for it, meaning the RFU could keep putting the asking price up. RFL didn't have this.

Second point, now BT look big players, that will put the RFL in a good position when the next contract comes up for renewal as SKY know how big SL is to them and now they have genuine competition, out contract will increase.

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And in a move that we'd expect from our own RFL, there's now a dispute with the ERC about the BT deal and the validity of screening the Heiniken Cup matches which have been previously contracted under a seperate arrangement.

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Quote: jarvis12345 "The TV money SL clubs recieve is enough to cover competitive squad in SL imo (1.32mil - 1.69 mil are the figures used on this thread) £1.5mil would be the average. Gate receipts, shirt sponsor, kit manufacturer, other sponsors, corporate money, grants and merchandise should be enough to cover staff wages and all other day to day cost imo as long as your chairman/CEO knows what he is doing so why clubs are reported to be on the edge of bankruptcy is beyond me.'"


Nearly every club is running at a 250-500k deficit so clearly it is not enough.

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Quote: JB Down Under "Nearly every club is running at a 250-500k deficit so clearly it is not enough.'"


What is the money going on?

Does anybody have any indicators or figures that could show the income/expenditure of an average SL club? KR, Cas, Salford, Wakey etc.

Im only guessing but I would have thought the top 5 clubs in SL would all be operating at a profit!

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Quote: jarvis12345 "What is the money going on?

Does anybody have any indicators or figures that could show the income/expenditure of an average SL club? KR, Cas, Salford, Wakey etc.

Im only guessing but I would have thought the top 5 clubs in SL would all be operating at a profit!'"

I'm sure the owners of Wigan, Wire & Saints would love to have an operational net profit, Saints owe in IRO £6m for their shiny stadium alone.
If clubs were able to operate profitably on gate, sponsorship, merchandising & TV money they wouldn't need backers now would they?

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