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Quote: The Clan "Go watch the game again, this time with your eyes open.'"

How many clean breaks did he make? Why did his impact lessen in the second half?
If he was tearing up the Australians why did he make so fewer metres than other backs ?
The Australians found him difficult to tackle in the first half but his running was mostly lateral.

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Quote: Jonesy "If that is the case why was he not man of the match?

He did some good passes and beat a couple of players and made half breaks.
He has a fair game.
Thurston and Smith did far better.
The Aussies are close to nicknaming him "The Crab" the way he crabs across field and gets tackled in the same point from his line only 30 yards across the field.
How many of the Australian Tries did he stop? its the fullbacks role to defend as much as attack.
In 10 minutes Slater stopped a forward on the try line and stripped then ball from him and then put his body on the line attempting to stop a much larger player from side on resulting in a multiple break of his Collarbone.

Tomkins was ineffective in defence.'"


A fullback is more of an attacking weapon than a defender. They have to be fast, elusive, good evasion skills, have a good reading of the game, have good timing to be able to hit gaps in attack, and a bit fearless too.

Making tackles is obviously a part of the game, but it's not a major part of what a fullback is expected to do. For the Inglis try, for instance, would you have expected Tomkins to have made it accross to the other side of the pitch in time to make a try-saving tackle? Impossible. He did make a try saving tackle on Thurston(?) though.

Oh, and despite Slater putting his body on the line for the 1st Hall try, he failed - Hall scored. Ineffective in defence?

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Sam T would go well in the NRL, but to do this he would have to become a bit more direct instead of running laterally. The fact that he runs sidewards a lot and does well applying it for Wigan says a lot about some of the SL teams lack of decent defence. But he definately has the allround game to shine down under. A lot of the good NRL fullbacks are elusive with good ball skills. Sam definately falls into this bracket.

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Quote: Thoth "How many clean breaks did he make? Why did his impact lessen in the second half?
If he was tearing up the Australians why did he make so fewer metres than other backs ?
The Australians found him difficult to tackle in the first half but his running was mostly lateral.'"


One clean break, one assist.

His impact lessened because the Aussie pack was on top because England had three injured forwards.

He didn't make 'so fewer metres than other backs':

Metres:

Yeaman 110
Chase 108
Hall 108
Tomkins 93
Briscoe 90
Reed 54
Sinfield 40
Widdop 29

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A comprehensive breakdown of Sam Tomkins attacking game agains Australia.

What's significant throughout the game is Australia's anxiety in defence when he receives the ball and without doubt Tomkins presence in the line even when he doesn't have the ball creates space out wide for others.

6.30 gets the ball in his hands for the 1st time and sends Chase on a 30mtr run

7.00 receives ball from Sinfield and beats Inglis, steps round Thurston, hands off Watmough and is caught, just, by a recovering Thurston who has to hang on giving a penalty to Englanfd inside the Aus 20

7.50 Tomkins comes into the line forcing an anxious Lawrence to rush up leaving a 2v1 outside which Yeaman bombs by coming inside.

9.50 chases Sinfield kick to the I goal, his pace forcing Inglis to put the ball out for a drop out.

10.29 joins the three quarter line as England attack, Boyd is so aware of his threat that he actually comes in field and tackles Tomkins without the ball being within 5 mtrs of him. This leaves Hall free and Sinfield picks him out putting him in at the corner where Boyd should have been.

19.30 receives the ball from a Lockyer bomb inside 10mtr area, sees a gap and accelerates between Thaiday and Lawrence who both get to him but can't stop him. Beats Smith with a double step then steps past Williams before being tackled 35 mtrs out.

23.16 Joins the line 20 meters out and is taken high by Thurston

25.30 Receives the ball on Aus 10mtr line, Lawrence rushes up and put a big shot on him but Tomkins shrugs him off and comes infield where he's tackled by Watmough

33.30 picks up a lost ball from JJB makes 3 mtrs before being tackled

38.45 receives a pass from Wilkin beats Thurston, steps out of Inglis tackle, makes 10 metres and sucks Lewis in, backhanded flick to Reed who puts Hall in for a try.

41.16 goes from acting half picking up 5mtrs

47.10 receives ball from Chase, quick catch & pass creates space for Yeaman who does the same and Briscoe scores but ruled out for double movement.

48.35 picks up on own tryline from a downfield kick by Aus, rounds Smith and gets outside of the 10.

50.00 gets the ball off Chase with two defenders right in front of him, steps round Smith who despite getting hands on him can't bring him down, crabs across field and gets tackled by Watmough and Thurston.

55.24 takes a drive at first man just 2mtrs off England line and picks up 7/8 metres

56.03 takes the ball at 2nd man to feed Widdop

57.50 receives the ball in broken play picks up 5mtrs but should receive a penalty as Watmough tips him upside down in the tackle.

59.00 takes a drive on the 2nd tackle as forwards haven't got back, picks up 10 mtrs

66.33 gets the ball 30mtrs out, pulls in Thurston and flicks the ball inside to Reed.

68.00 gets in a 1st man feeding Chase outside him.

75.20 receives the ball at 2nd man feeds Heighington into a gap who breaks the Ausie line and picks up 10 mtrs.

75.45 gets an inside ball off Sinfield sucks in Thurston, Boyd & Williams, who gets a decent hold on him but can't prevent the backhanded flick to Heighington who scores.

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Quote: Jonesy "If that is the case why was he not man of the match?

He did some good passes and beat a couple of players and made half breaks.
He has a fair game.
Thurston and Smith did far better.
The Aussies are close to nicknaming him "The Crab" the way he crabs across field and gets tackled in the same point from his line only 30 yards across the field.
How many of the Australian Tries did he stop? its the fullbacks role to defend as much as attack.
In 10 minutes Slater stopped a forward on the try line and stripped the ball from him and then put his body on the line attempting to stop a much larger player from side on resulting in a multiple break of his Collarbone.

Tomkins was ineffective in defence.'"


Like I said before, go back and watch the game properly, your comments are a bit daft to be honest.

"The Ausies are lose to nick naming him the crab" icon_rolleyes.gif

"Ineffective defence" icon_neutral.gif

I havnt been back and studied his defensive game but I can tell you that for Lewis's and Inglis's tries Tomkins had made the tackle immediately preceding the try and cannot therefore be criticised for his defence in those cases.

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Quote: The Clan "Like I said before, go back and watch the game properly, your comments are a bit daft to be honest.

"The Ausies are lose to nick naming him the crab"
I have watched the game a couple of times, Tomkins was in the tackle on at least one of the Australian tries and he was.

He was in the tackle before Lewis scored but it went through several hands and he was also there on Lewis at the end of the movement doing not much. 16:40

When Williams scored he off to the right of the play and had no part in the defence of the try. 29:56

When Inglis scored he was nowhere to be seen 43:19

Gallens try he was in the line and came over way to late 52:43

Boyd? Tomkins was walking across the field on the other side of the pitch after chasing Thurston. 72:09

Lawrences try Tomkins is jogging along the try line 30 yards away.

Is the English Fullback ever the last line of defence? it would appear not.

78:24

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Quote: Jonesy "I have watched the game a couple of times, Tomkins was in the tackle on at least one of the Australian tries and he was.

He was in the tackle before Lewis scored but it went through several hands and he was also there on Lewis at the end of the movement doing not much. 16


So your argument is that because Tomkins can't get involved in every tackle he's a poor defender?

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Quote: Jonesy "I have watched the game a couple of times, Tomkins was in the tackle on at least one of the Australian tries and he was.

He was in the tackle before Lewis scored but it went through several hands and he was also there on Lewis at the end of the movement doing not much. 16


Get a grip icon_lol.gif

Started Halls first try, played a great out of the backdoor pass for his 2nd and then set up that last try with another out the back door. Look a bit closer to home and Sinfield and Chase are non existant.

Sam was effictively playing 1 6 and 7 on Saturday. If only we had a few halves too.

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Quote: Jonesy "its the fullbacks role to defend as much as attack.'"


It might have been twenty years ago bud but we're in the modern era now and the ability to attack now makes up more of the role than defending does.

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Quote: Saddened! "I hope the RFL tell them where to go. Wigan could keep Tomkins, they could keep them both if they didn't sign players like Carmont, Finch, Lauaki, Leuleuai and Richards. That way Sam wouldn't need to continually tweet about his trips to London to meet Unionites for 'dinner'.'"


Carmont, Finch Lealuai and Richards have been some of our best players recently. You're suggesting we didn't sign anyone and just keep Joel and Sam? Makes a lot of sense

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Quote: The Clan "So your argument is that because Tomkins can't get involved in every tackle he's a poor defender?'"



No.

The fact he was slightly involved in defence on the person scoring the try on only one occasion was the point I was making.
If a fullback does not need positional sense and the ability to read a game and be close or around any attacking final move, why bother having a fullback? just have a random player that does whatever he likes and bobs up in attack randomly.

Thanks McClennan but I know what makes a good fullback, Australia defined the role of the modern fullback the same as they have developed and defined the role of pretty well all positions in the modern game at the elite level.
England have not been at the leading edge of the games development for a few decades or so.
Except the "ball playing" lock Mr Sinfield has that area covered.

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Quote: Jonesy "No.

The fact he was slightly involved in defence on the person scoring the try on only one occasion was the point I was making.
If a fullback does not need positional sense and the ability to read a game and be close or around any attacking final move, why bother having a fullback? just have a random player that does whatever he likes and bobs up in attack randomly.

Thanks McClennan but I know what makes a good fullback, Australia defined the role of the modern fullback the same as they have developed and defined the role of pretty well all positions in the modern game at the elite level.
England have not been at the leading edge of the games development for a few decades or so.
Except the "ball playing" lock Mr Sinfield has that area covered.'"

ahhh... so because you think Australia has defined the role of a modern fullback..... that's makes you an expert.

icon_lol.gif

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Quote: morleys_deckchair "ahhh... so because you think Australia has defined the role of a modern fullback..... that's makes you an expert.

Not at all.
I have seen the best Fullbacks that Australia has produced since 1975, often live.
Rugby League is one of the big sports in Australia and every facet of the game is pulled apart and judged by the media and the fans.

Compare that to the English game and how it is played its worlds apart.

I have seen your comments and you are entitled to your views, I just do not agree with many of them.

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Quote: Jonesy "Not at all.
I have seen the best Fullbacks that Australia has produced since 1975, often live.
Rugby League is one of the big sports in Australia and every facet of the game is pulled apart and judged by the media and the fans.

Compare that to the English game and how it is played its worlds apart.

I have seen your comments and you are entitled to your views, I just do not agree with many of them.'"


I think your trying to put down england best full back because your on a ENGLISH RLfans website you only have to look a the roosters and west tigers forum to see he is getting the raps he deserves. The only forum i have seen what doesn't is the sharks as they think gardner is a better fullback which is laughable!(if sam did go to the nrl i can't see it being the sharks they are the are like superleagues castleford). As sam was there for the lewis try but got off balance to stop him maybe hes positioning is questionable but certianly not hes defence unlike billy slater what was that attempt on hall and i have seen him do that more than once in the nrl. And the Trex try are you for real you would expect that a good tackling second row wouldnt of been pushed off so easy unless your a complete mind reader?

as i have said before as it stands for full backs in the world it goes 1.billy slater and then joint 2nd brett stewart and sam tomkins and anything else is not true. Maybe bowen because of hes impact when thruston was injured but he was playing more of 6 role for the side which looks to be hes better position.

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