I'm not really sure that we can say when Reed is on form or not after playimg just 19 games, never mid have enough information to rank him in the top x centres

Yes, the NRL is the strongest club competition in the world of Rugby League but this is the problem – let’s not assume that every player who plays in that league is world class because they simply aren’t

I agree with you on that, but I have probably seen Jack Reed play more that I have Kallum Watkins and I think he's a star.

OK, that's a fair point - I hope turns out to be (and English!)

Nice to have a disagreement on the VT that hasn't ended up in handbags!

Only a "novice" (your word) would argue that an error-strewn individual performance which constituted 6 missed tackles and 3 ineffective tackles somehow constitutes as "quality", and the "mashing up" and "crushing" of the opposition single-handedly.

Quite correct.

Gareths stats prove that.

Ellis hasn't been particularly prolific at offloads during his international career against the Aussies and Kiwis so why should he suddenly start now?

Gareth Ellis Number of offloads

2008 World Cup V AUS - 0
2008 World Cup V NZ - 1
2008 World Cup V NZ- 1

2009 Four Nations V AUS - 1
2009 Four Nations V NZ - 1
2009 Four Nations V AUS - 1

2010 Four Nations V NZ - 1
2010 Four Nations V AUS - 0

Yes it was and you're wearing it well

Suits you!

I look forward to Ellis "mashing up" and "crushing" the Aussies and Kiwis in November based on his missed/ineffective tackling performance on Friday against Manly, along with his "quality" offloading ability once every blue moon.

Meanwhile, in the real world, either the Aussies or the Kiwis will win the tournament.

Anyone who doubts the absolute quality of Gareth Ellis is an idiot.

Stats only tell you half the story in any game. But the fact Ellis was Wests Player of the Year 2009 and 2010, and Wests Members Player of the Year 2009 should tell you a little.

Have a look for "Wests Tigers - Gareth Ellis" on YouTube and you'll see a bit of what he's been doing in the much vaunted mighty NRL.

I haven't seen a great deal of absolute quality from Gareth Ellis on the international stage for England or GB against the Aussies or Kiwis. Same applies to Adrian Morley throughout his international career. Patchy at best.

Any idea why such esteemed quality form in the NRL rarely translated itself on to the international stage?

No, you're correct. Ripping it up in the NRL counts for absolutely squat unless he's blown the world apart in an international.

Really.

Ripping it up, mashing them up, crushing them up in the NRL appears to overlook things like 6 missed tackles and 3 ineffective tackles according to some.

He's going to blow the world apart in internationals in November isn't he?

The OP used a bad example to extol the virtues of all things Gareth Ellis. If he misses 6 tackles and makes 3 incomplete tackles for England in the Tri Nations like he did on Friday for Wests Tigers against Manly, the Australians and Kiwis will have a field day targeting him at international level.

You're banging on about the 6 & 3 as though it's a shocking statistic.

Benji Marshall also missed 6 tackles in that game.
So did Anthony Watmough.
Dene Halatau missed 6 and made 4 ineffective tackles for Canterbury.
Nathan Fein made 4 ineffective tackles for St George.
Chris Sandow missed 10 tackles for Souths.

There are many players who missed more tackles and made more ineffective tackles than Gareth Ellis. Change the record.

It's not a statistic which earmarked Ellis's performance this weekend as a "mashing, crushing or ripping up" of the NRL by any stretch of anyone's imaginative imagination. It was the most ridiculous example of "bigging up" a British player imaginable. Galloway, Heighington and Gibbs all played far better than Ellis this weekend.

Unlike Ellis whose job it is to engage in the no-nonsense grind and tackle stints, none of those players you've cited above are noted for their solid, defensive qualities. Laughably, you've compared Ellis to attack-minded backs like Sandow, Marshall and Fien. You may as well compare Ellis's defensive capabilities with those of Sean Long or Danny McGuire!

Ellis isn't mashing, crushing and ripping up the NRL every week. He's a solid, dependable, reliable player with a high work rate mainly in defence. He had a poor game this weekend by his own standards. And when it comes to the 4N in November, he'll struggle to compete... just like he and every other England player has struggled to compete in the international arena. Nothing will change there, no matter what England side takes to the field or who is coaching them.