Thanks Nozzy wondered what he was going on about? ps I've been and agree it is a great atmosphere and has a very long tradition of RL, hence why I wouldn;t call it an expansion area!

so,is it or isn't it ?

Sarcasm not your strong point?

'Sarcasm is the lowest form of wit but the highest form of intelligence'

Russell Crowe

Would he make a better job of it then messrs Lewis and Wood?

Ok

So the three expansion teams that can be even considered as a kind of success are Catalan, Harlequins (ignoring all it's many failed previous guises), Sheffield (or Huddersfield as they now are).

The teams that failed are, Gateshead, Fulham, London Crusader, London Broncos, Sheffield Eagles 2, South Wales, Mansfield, Blackpool, Chorley, Nottingham, Kent Invicta, Scarborough Pirates and I'm sure I've missed loads.

To be fair it's not a great record no matter how well Catalan do. Also the fact there was enough left of a French game to create a French SL team is not something I feel the RFL can take credit for. Probably the opposite.

Les Cats are not an expansion team anymore than having HKR or Widnes back in SL are expansion clubs. Only expansion clubs in either hemisphere are Quins, Crusaders and Storm. For 100+ years and two continents for the game to have expanded into a whole 3 new areas at full pro level is a pretty sad indictment of the poor quality of administration our game has been blighted with.

And can we contrast this list with the huge number of heartland clubs who 'failed' and gone through similar different guises and gone through cva's and administration

I knew someone, most likely you would throw that one in.

It's true as far as it goes depending how much you're willing to spin something.

The stark truth is that two wrongs don't make a right.

In fact the only relevance IMO and the one that truly weakens the claims and desires of the expansionist is that fact that we will never be able to expand until we have our own back yard in order.

The expansion of the NRL or football or NFL into new areas has always been done on the back of those particular sports thriving in their heartlands. If we as RL fans in the UK were honest for once and accepted we are a small game that has done well to survive we would be IMO a lot better off.

I like many others who are often branded luddites by the expansionist brigade are no such thing. RL being played at a high level nationwide it what most including me would love to see. However it has to be done on the back of a successful heartland game not in spite of it.

You cannot make people want a game. You have to create a game that those who don't have it look at and want. It is these people who drive expansion rather than some outside body imposing a team on them.

The trick is knowing the difference between a small but load bunch of enthusiast and a real demand in the area. It's here where the RFL have been a woeful failure IMO.

FWIW I think the last chance we had in the UK was in the early 90's in Wales before the RFU went pro. There was real disillusionment with RU combined with a large number of well known proper welshmen playing RL. We missed that boat and IMO no amount of RFL funding will reverse that loss, the chance has gone. RU is king again in South Wales and North Wales IMO simply can't support a team long term.

So regardless of whatever other faults exist in our game the RFL's record on expansion is crap compared to nearly all other sports. And for me the answer lays in having a genuinely strong heartland game first and not later.