so,is it or isn't it ?

Sarcasm not your strong point?

'Sarcasm is the lowest form of wit but the highest form of intelligence'

Russell Crowe

Would he make a better job of it then messrs Lewis and Wood?

Ok

So the three expansion teams that can be even considered as a kind of success are Catalan, Harlequins (ignoring all it's many failed previous guises), Sheffield (or Huddersfield as they now are).

The teams that failed are, Gateshead, Fulham, London Crusader, London Broncos, Sheffield Eagles 2, South Wales, Mansfield, Blackpool, Chorley, Nottingham, Kent Invicta, Scarborough Pirates and I'm sure I've missed loads.

To be fair it's not a great record no matter how well Catalan do. Also the fact there was enough left of a French game to create a French SL team is not something I feel the RFL can take credit for. Probably the opposite.

Les Cats are not an expansion team anymore than having HKR or Widnes back in SL are expansion clubs. Only expansion clubs in either hemisphere are Quins, Crusaders and Storm. For 100+ years and two continents for the game to have expanded into a whole 3 new areas at full pro level is a pretty sad indictment of the poor quality of administration our game has been blighted with.

And can we contrast this list with the huge number of heartland clubs who 'failed' and gone through similar different guises and gone through cva's and administration

I knew someone, most likely you would throw that one in.

It's true as far as it goes depending how much you're willing to spin something.

The stark truth is that two wrongs don't make a right.

In fact the only relevance IMO and the one that truly weakens the claims and desires of the expansionist is that fact that we will never be able to expand until we have our own back yard in order.

The expansion of the NRL or football or NFL into new areas has always been done on the back of those particular sports thriving in their heartlands. If we as RL fans in the UK were honest for once and accepted we are a small game that has done well to survive we would be IMO a lot better off.

I like many others who are often branded luddites by the expansionist brigade are no such thing. RL being played at a high level nationwide it what most including me would love to see. However it has to be done on the back of a successful heartland game not in spite of it.

You cannot make people want a game. You have to create a game that those who don't have it look at and want. It is these people who drive expansion rather than some outside body imposing a team on them.

The trick is knowing the difference between a small but load bunch of enthusiast and a real demand in the area. It's here where the RFL have been a woeful failure IMO.

FWIW I think the last chance we had in the UK was in the early 90's in Wales before the RFU went pro. There was real disillusionment with RU combined with a large number of well known proper welshmen playing RL. We missed that boat and IMO no amount of RFL funding will reverse that loss, the chance has gone. RU is king again in South Wales and North Wales IMO simply can't support a team long term.

So regardless of whatever other faults exist in our game the RFL's record on expansion is crap compared to nearly all other sports. And for me the answer lays in having a genuinely strong heartland game first and not later.

well said vastman a lot of sense there but,

quite right about the Catalans but whereas the RFL are FOR expansion to places like Perpignan & Toulouse the real threat peversely could come from SKY themelves who are contracted to bring two live games plus any future play-offs from Perpignan which is a big drain on their resources.It may be good for the RFL & the visiting fans & certainly the local community which has embraced the SL for obvious reasons tho' bad economoically for SKY

widnes for wakey in SL is going to get the backyard right

that post is hilarious given you are a fan of a club who has continually promised the RFL theyll improve and never do.

its clubs like wakey who arent going anywhere as to why progress is so slow.

Fellow Wakey fans, don't feed this troll....

Or that the failure of Paris last time doesnt prove that Toulouse (or even Paris again) would fail next time. And that Crusaders Administration doesnt prove RL doesnt or wont work in Wales anymore than Trinity's CVA doesnt prove RL doesnt or wont work in Wakefield

or that the two things are independent and the evidence you are presenting doesnt prove your conclusion.

it really really wasnt. The NFL dropped almost all of its heartland clubs and moved to big cities, all in a very short space of time.

it doesnt. I know what you are arguing here sounds nice, and sounds like what people want to hear, but it just isnt true. A strong heartland is important. Expansion is important. But they are different, they are separate, they arent interlinked.

There is a desperation in the game to try and link the two ideas. That Wakefields, Hull KRs, Widnes, Blackpool's financial struggles are linked to the expansion of the game elsewhere, but they arent. It isnt because of Les Catalans that people didnt go watch blackpool. It isnt because of Crusaders that Wakefield cant seem to keep their crowds up. Hull KR didnt lose £3m over the course of their first years in SL because of Quins.

you also cannot sell a game in what is a very competitive market by giving them the worst of your product. The idea that a club can be built from enthusiasts, to an amateur team, to a semi-pro club, to an SL club is pie in the sky. It has never been done in the history of the game. Only one club in the past 90 years have gone from amateur to semi-pro and none to pro. 'Organic growth' is a myth in our game.

Well that is your opinion, and you are welcome to it. But we will never know if we dont try, we have a good opportunity to try right now, the first signs in north wales were very encouraging. Lets stick with it.

firstly, as i have already said the strength of our heartlands and expansion are two different things. Secondly, how much stronger do you want our heartlands to be. We are stronger than any other game bar football in our heartlands.