A roses games or any other option already discussed would be no more than a glorified friendly, most top players would have an "injury" that week.

Playing standards need to be addressed from the bottom up and that means starting at Junior levels, ideally round the u8 age groups.

Get some proper coaching structures in place with clubs having some say in coaching and development at junior/feeder clubs not someones dad whose passed a level 1/2 weekend coaching course and get em in the summer ffs.

Without thinking about it too much and obviously more thought needs to go into it but id make every semi and professional club run juniors from u8 to u16 in some form of competitive rugby then natural progression takes them through to academy after that.

I make that 9 junior teams, some could play pre game as curtain raisers, the rest could play the morning of games at a convenient venue close to the home club.

Hastily written down but you get the drift

Oh yeah the roses match which ended Steve Prescott's career....yeah lets do it

We need to see England play in competitive games in order to be best prepared for the end of season competitions. The only way we'll manage that is against a top-tier nation (Australia and New Zealand) or a select side made up of quality players.

Splitting England in half will not increase the competitiveness of the team. And it will not help England build strategies and tactics for future internationals. This is where we fail against the big teams. We can't rely on our forwards to win games, only to make the platform.

And at the end of the day, it's only a friendly, so why does it matter if the team they play is contrived or not? If it's there to do its purpose (prepare us by playing better opposition) then it's a good idea. I'm sure it would be just as big an event as playing one of the European sides or the Roses games (i.e. 10k max, so not very), so it's definitely a better option.

And it doesn't mean we're abandoning France either. They can play Wales, which has proven to be a much better game and very well attended, so everybody is a winner.

no

What incentive do the amateur teams have to run teams if they are going to lose all of their best players to the pro teams from 8 years old?

This idea would fold lots of junior set ups. Hence making the player pool smaller and weakening the game in this country.

If the pro teams took more of an interest in the amateur game it would be a start. Organising coaching clinics, taking sessions as guest coaches etc.

Week 1: England vs Wales, France vs Lebanon, Ireland vs Scotland

Week 2: Wales vs France, England vs Ireland, Italy vs Scotland

Week 3: England vs France, Italy vs Lebanon, Wales vs Ireland.

No competition as such, just a mid-season series of friendly test matches. A bit like the rugby union 'Autumn Internations' in terms of set up, and following the three weekend scheduling like origin.

That's what I'd prefer anyway. This way, all players have something to play for and pride in representing their country, and it gives the other European sides some much needed competition.

I think England do need more competitive games, but IMO that isn;t solved by a roses match, it's solved by helping increase the standard of our neighbouring countries.

Money is usually a good motivator!

I dont think it would, if you started taking the cream to pro clubs at certain age levels then i would guess (loosely) that you'd have more even youth leagues and i dont think it would make it smaller, if the game is strong enough then you'd still have amateur clubs running juniors, you just wouldnt get teams throwing the ball to the "biggest" or "fastest" lad every other play, i've watched a fair bit of junior rugby and till about u13 there isnt any structure whatsoever to games, its throw it the big lad every time, i know im dreaming a bit thinking every club could have successful junior set ups but surely its worth a go if you only do the odd number age groups



Completely agree with that

Well they do in Leeds.

This is so true.
I know a lad who at 13 was 6'4 and 16.5 stone. Was he too big for the other kids? yes was he a good player? no. Representative selection etc and by the time he was 17 he'd dropped out of the game. Its just daft.

Yep, this is the key issue for me. We simply aren't coaching kids the skills at an early age, they are having to learn most of them from the pro clubs when they get selected for scholarships/academies. Sadly a lot of amateur coaches simply aren't good enough or have totally the wrong attitude to be a good youth coach.

So true.
A lot of the problems stem from coaches being overkeen dads willing to help out, they just dont have it.
I was lucky because I had my dad to show me most of the basic skills like proper sidestepping, Kicking, spin passing both ways, flicks by the time I was 7 but I remember playing at those ages and being amazed by the lack of structure in any play.
Im not one to advocate the whole 'shouldnt pidgeon hole positions' lark but for me kids dont learn enough about the all round technical elements of the game especially proper defensive work.
A lot of kids coaches might teach the kids to be fit and may even be decent disciplinarians but if you go round watching amateur rugby now, sure there's some big and fast blokes knocking around but the skillsets are next to none, even very good amateur standard. Some may disagree but thats my opinion.

EDIT: summer amateur rugby is a MUST. You try getting the scrawny kid and smallest kid in the year (me) into space on mudbaths..it just doesnt happen. Its cold, wet and you just freeze. Ive grown to be 16 1/2 stone, not really overweight at all and run the 100m in under 11.5 seconds. I played service area years ago but did I get a fair crack of the whip.. imo no.

The answer to England's problems is quite simple, and it's not a Roses match.

Just expand the game in England, at the moment it's still very much a northern thing. Some need to take those chips off their shoulders and accept that closer ties to soccer and union clubs elsewhere in the country might provide a doorway to greater things.