Barrow's capacity has rose by a thousand from last season, we can achive a 10'000 stadium with a fair few additional crush barriers and a stand extention without changing the grounds footprint, so to speak.

So its not impossible.

Gutterfax quotes the guidelines which were used in 2008 to determine whether clubs which were already in superleague would keep their places. These guidelines are irrelevant to the question of admitting clubs from outside superleague, whether these are existing Championship clubs like Widnes and Barrow or totally new clubs.

SLE is a business venture and any new admissions will be decided on business grounds, particularly whether or not an applicant offers anything new to the enterprise. Success on the playing field has little to do with it. The gap between Super League and the rest is so wide that any new admission would have to recruit a complete new playing and coaching staff.

Widnes already have several strikes against them. The major one is that the region the club is located in is already over-saturated with Super League clubs. Widnes offer nothing new at all. People on this forum remember Widnes's glory days from the 70's and 80's but the fact is that for most of the twentieth century they were an average mid-table side existing in the shadows of St Helens, Wigan and Warrington. Even in the glory days they never attracted either the crowds or the corporate sponsorship needed to support a major club and they always ended up selling their best players in order to survive. Their most recent attempt to survive at the top level failed.

Barrow at least offers access to a region (Cumbria) which has a strong rugby league tradition and should stand a better chance of admission than any other championship club apart from Toulouse. No other club from the tradional regions has any more to offer than the clubs already in Super League.

In my opinion all the current Super League clubs will retain their places next time round although Cas and Wakey may be offered an incentive to merge. If the merger comes off, Toulouse or Barrow may get a place.

'Strikes'? Are you inventing a new set of criteria all of your own?

And whats this bit about 'offering something new'? Where does it say we have to offer something new to gain a SL license? Did Salford offer something new, other than a new low in attendances?

'Our most recent attempt at top level survival failing'? Well, P&R was in place at the time, so SOMEBODY had to go down and it just so happened there was a higher relegation place that year too. We had some decent years in SL, with some big performances, and got some very big scalps along the way including Leeds Rhinos several times in one season. We only just missed playoff rugby in our first SL season.

Also on that 'failing' note, the SL licensing committee last time told us we couldnt consider ourselves to be the same entity as the previous company, and use past glories/crowds etc as part of our bid, and were therefore treated like a company who had existed for a few months. Well, if theyre playing that card, it SHOULDNT be allowed to work BOTH WAYS for them, and we shouldnt be hampered by the sins and performance of our former company and directors, none of whom are now associated with the company. I suspect SOC will make that point abundantly clear to them if they try to do that as a means of rejecting us.

For someone that allegedly lives in such a fantastic spot you really do talk garbage.

I'm guessing you are a pommie migrant.

Cas and wakey are as likely to merge as Saints and Wigan

Grounds, Grounds, Grounds, blah blah blah.... Bollocks!

I am a Barrow fan and I DO NOT want a SL franchise in 2012!!!

The whole franchise system is arbitrary, subjective and does little but cause fans of clubs to throw stones at each other regarding their relative performance against the criteria.

The reason I don't want a franchise is that financial figures for all SL clubs for the past 5 years and more show a very depressing forcast for the sport. In fact if we are honest, SL is financially unsustainable.

The only club not to lose money in the previous financial year was Leeds and this was only achieved by selling the cricket ground, a feat I would be amazed to see them repeat next year. One SL club posted losses in excess of three times the "healthy profit" the RFL recorded when it crowed about the sport being in rude health.

So with this depressing forcast for our sport are we the fans approaching the RFL and asking that they provide financial governance, set individual salary caps, reduce costs caused by expansion, relax ground development criteria or improve the sports publicity and profile?

Are we f***!

We are on here slagging each others grounds off as we squabble between ourselves in attempt to get a seat at the big boys table. Well let me tell you, when you get there you will find there is nothing but a poisoned chalice to drink from!

I personally think the only club with a chance of making it is Widnes. They have what should be article number one on the franchise criteria; an extremely rich philanthropist as a chairman. Steve O'Connor is a real guy and a RL Clubs wet dream, he kept Widnes in business a few years ago, serviced their debts and invested in their team and development programmes. They have crowds rivalling current SL clubs and the business infrastructure to realise the potential revenues such crowds generate. (before anyone mentions Des and his "sugar daddy" role at Barrow, go and look at our accounts, they are all in the public domain as are every clubs)

Barrow as a club (and a business) need to consolidate their achievements to date and develop their business infrastructure, ground, development programmes (and relationships with the local amatuer scene) and establish the club as a stable financial concern with a view to applying for a franchise in 2015. I predict there may be a few vacancies by then as there is no end to the current recession in view, nor an end to SL clubs overspending.

I like you
As I have said....keep plugging away in the Chamionship...wait for the right backer to come along THEN apply.....there will be gaps sooner rather than later in the SL top table!

Good to see there are few more people seeing sense , I share your opinion , I dont and didn't want Leigh to get a franchise until we are in a position to sustain it

good post

Barry thinks I'm a pommy migrant!. The only people who migrate to Oz these days come by boat through Christmas Island. I'm a visitor. Someone has to teach you Bogans basic skills like how to tie your shoelaces and so on. Avalon is OK but not idyllic - Blackpool with sharks but better than East Cheam or wherever you live. If you're feeling homesick listen to this: www.youtube.com/watch?v=sopmZNqARwQ that is, if you can understand your own language.

Barry thinks I'm a pommy migrant!. The only people who migrate to Oz these days come by boat through Christmas Island. I'm a visitor. Someone has to teach you Bogans basic skills like how to tie your shoelaces and so on. Avalon is OK but not idyllic - Blackpool with sharks but better than East Cheam or wherever you live. If you're feeling homesick listen to this: www.youtube.com/watch?v=sopmZNqARwQ that is, if you can understand your own language.

I may be wrong but I understood the 10,000 stadium with 2000 seats and 2500 average crowd are minimum standards, ie without these they will not further consider an application, that does not actually get you any points.

The minimum standard is why Wakey Cas and Salford need new grounds - they don't have 2,000 seats. Also why Bradford & HKR did not get warnings.

Actually HKR are a great example, New Craven Park gets slated but is actually a very decent ground on two sides, the improvements to date suggest further development will happen.

As Gutterfax has stated elsewhere Barrow do have a number of strengths to any bid, however the ground as it stands is a showstopper. People may think that unfair, but those are the criteria, what Barrow need to do is not build a Halliwell Jones but get thier Craven Park to the standard of HKR's.

Can that be done for 2012? I don't know, but it would cost more than a few hundred grand. It certainly should be achievable for 2015, by which time other factors could make Barrow a shoe in.

Good thread this.

I think its a bit optimistic to think that Barrows side is 'almost' SL quality when they are only 4th in the Championship. So no, I think the barrow team would need more than just a 'few' additions. Players that are very good at CC level, such as broadbent who is playing brilliantly, would be caught out for pace/fitness in SL. Catic is still SL quality though!

I dont know where this has come from ? , Have the RFL issued a statement that I missed ?

Barrow currently have many players out injuried and have players missing from week 1 plus we still have games in hand of all the teams above them, so its a bit harsh to judge them on being 4th today.

I know you have players missing but TBH you would have to be absolutely walking it in the championship to be anywhere near SL level. 'Fax and Barrow have the best players on paper but 'Fev are probably the best 'team' this year and they are no where near SL so Barrow (IMO) are miles away from being competitive at SL level.