Quote: Gladiators "Some interesting opinions in this thread. As somebody who works and studies in Wrexham I'm delighted with the proposed move. On a personal level, I have always felt that RL has a much better chance of prospering in the North than it has ever had in the South. I do feel sorry for those Crusaders fans who will no longer be able to support their club week in, week out but there is huge potential for the game up here. The WRU have pretty much turned a blind eye to the region, save for a couple of Scarlets games, and their is a definite gap in the market for a top level Rugby club. North Wales has some extremely strong amateur RU clubs with massive junior sections. I accept that RU and RL are different games but their is a huge potential talent and supporter base for the Crusaders to target. Currently, there are very limited opportunities for people living in the region to watch top-level professional sport. In fact, there are none. If this move is done properly and supported by some forward-thinking, long-term marketing and community work then it can work. The Crusaders have been competing with some major RU and football clubs for support and attention. The WRU are extremely active in the South and the local press are very RU-focused, understandably so given the large crowds and levels of interest. I'm not really sure whether they were ready or not for Super League - performances both on and off the field would suggest not - but the simple fact is that the RFL made the decision and we must run with it and hope it succeeds. I am very pleased that a new South Wales-based club has been formed and I hope they are successful. Having two senior RL clubs in Wales can only compliment the excellent progress the WRL have been making on the international scene. People who suggest that the new consortium are only in this to raise money for the football club are wide of the mark. Wrexham FC have endured a couple of pretty miserable campaigns and apathy amongst their supporters is pretty high - something I can relate do being a supporter of Chester City. They attracted just over 1000 fans this weekend so they have their own work to do. Nobody sees the Crusaders as a magic wand that will bring revenue into the club. They know it is a long-term project that will require lots of hard work but they also recognise that the addition of the Crusaders can compliment the football club and raise the towns profile. There is a fair amount of building work scheduled for the Racecourse - including a new Kop end - and for this to be worth the effort the ground needs to be in use 12 months of the year. Wrexham is a pleasant enough town and the Racecourse is about as central as you can get. The train station is 200 yards away and the town centre can be reached in 5 minutes. It has lots of bars, shops and restaurants and with the North Wales coast a short drive away it is a welcome addition to Super League. I'm not going to comment on the frustration of Widnes fans or followers of other clubs who missed out on Super League. However, no matter how close Wrexham is to Widnes the fact remains that it is in Wales and the presence of two elite Welsh RL clubs is great for the development of RL. Personally, I think Widnes should be in SL and probably would be if it weren't for the antics of Stephen Vaughan.'" I pretty much agree with all of that but, Wrexham FC chief executive Paul Retout has made a big issue out of the fact that he sees it as being for the benefit of the Soccer club. news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/rugby_l ... 387114.stm You are bang on about North Wales having no major sport in the area. Perhaps the RFL could’ve stumbled upon an area, that stands a reasonable chance of success, almost by default? The only reason I have my doubts is because of the adhoc way the club has come into being, and a total lack of RL played in the area at the moment. If the RFL can replicate what they have done down the M4 corridor in the South then this just might work. I’m not saying it will but, with a fair bit of marketing, and a team that doesn’t get hammered every week, they could pull in people from across North Wales, as well as getting in more fans from the heartland clubs.

Quote: Gladiators "Some interesting opinions in this thread. As somebody who works and studies in Wrexham I'm delighted with the proposed move. On a personal level, I have always felt that RL has a much better chance of prospering in the North than it has ever had in the South. I do feel sorry for those Crusaders fans who will no longer be able to support their club week in, week out but there is huge potential for the game up here. The WRU have pretty much turned a blind eye to the region, save for a couple of Scarlets games, and their is a definite gap in the market for a top level Rugby club. North Wales has some extremely strong amateur RU clubs with massive junior sections. I accept that RU and RL are different games but their is a huge potential talent and supporter base for the Crusaders to target. Currently, there are very limited opportunities for people living in the region to watch top-level professional sport. In fact, there are none. If this move is done properly and supported by some forward-thinking, long-term marketing and community work then it can work. The Crusaders have been competing with some major RU and football clubs for support and attention. The WRU are extremely active in the South and the local press are very RU-focused, understandably so given the large crowds and levels of interest. I'm not really sure whether they were ready or not for Super League - performances both on and off the field would suggest not - but the simple fact is that the RFL made the decision and we must run with it and hope it succeeds. I am very pleased that a new South Wales-based club has been formed and I hope they are successful. Having two senior RL clubs in Wales can only compliment the excellent progress the WRL have been making on the international scene. People who suggest that the new consortium are only in this to raise money for the football club are wide of the mark. Wrexham FC have endured a couple of pretty miserable campaigns and apathy amongst their supporters is pretty high - something I can relate do being a supporter of Chester City. They attracted just over 1000 fans this weekend so they have their own work to do. Nobody sees the Crusaders as a magic wand that will bring revenue into the club. They know it is a long-term project that will require lots of hard work but they also recognise that the addition of the Crusaders can compliment the football club and raise the towns profile. There is a fair amount of building work scheduled for the Racecourse - including a new Kop end - and for this to be worth the effort the ground needs to be in use 12 months of the year. Wrexham is a pleasant enough town and the Racecourse is about as central as you can get. The train station is 200 yards away and the town centre can be reached in 5 minutes. It has lots of bars, shops and restaurants and with the North Wales coast a short drive away it is a welcome addition to Super League. I'm not going to comment on the frustration of Widnes fans or followers of other clubs who missed out on Super League. However, no matter how close Wrexham is to Widnes the fact remains that it is in Wales and the presence of two elite Welsh RL clubs is great for the development of RL. Personally, I think Widnes should be in SL and probably would be if it weren't for the antics of Stephen Vaughan.'" I pretty much agree with all of that but, Wrexham FC chief executive Paul Retout has made a big issue out of the fact that he sees it as being for the benefit of the Soccer club. news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/rugby_l ... 387114.stm You are bang on about North Wales having no major sport in the area. Perhaps the RFL could’ve stumbled upon an area, that stands a reasonable chance of success, almost by default? The only reason I have my doubts is because of the adhoc way the club has come into being, and a total lack of RL played in the area at the moment. If the RFL can replicate what they have done down the M4 corridor in the South then this just might work. I’m not saying it will but, with a fair bit of marketing, and a team that doesn’t get hammered every week, they could pull in people from across North Wales, as well as getting in more fans from the heartland clubs.

I think the choice was

a) Liquidation and NO RFL at any venue or

b) A Super League team in Wrexham in a super Stadium backed by a Chairman who has sold his business for big money rather than a Chairman having enormous problems trying to keep his own business afloat.


As it happens the outcome for RL fans in Wales will be very positive and the new side will be playing at a more realistic level for their Welsh (hopefully) players. I really dont think its all doom and gloom at all.

Excellent first post. I really hope it works too.

at the time Hull KR had a 1500 fan base they were a s**t club too.

Having followed Rovers a long time & watched crowds fluctuate over the years has been frustrating. Yes some hard work & cash has been put in by the board but to suggest some of the other lower division clubs could do the same is not quiet right nowadays. It is not fair to say clubs have had 100 years as up to 1995 small town clubs could compete with most of the big clubs as the whole game except Wgan was part time. I have a warm respect for clubs like Featherstone but to compete in Super League they will need to pull in crowds of over 10,000 (as HKR's chairman has stated we need to to be viable long term) The one thing we have going for us is that we are located in a large city & I am afraid now most top flight sports clubs of any code with full time staff will have to be. The day of the local small buisness man runing his club as a hobby have long gone & we are at the mercy of larger buisiness owners trying to make it work in the sports buisiness as in the case of CC & failure in his core buisiness brining down the sports club.

It is this kind of partnering which ought to provide a good chance for success. Overhead costs relating to the ground are borne by both clubs, thus, each individual club benefits from a lower cost base. A win win. And there's certainly nothing wrong with that.

Further integration of ticketing, merchandising, club shop even marketing could extend the benefits. This sort of arrangement should make clubs viable even with a relatively small crowd intitally. Let's hope that the commitment is there this time.

I think we know this is the most important thing.

Too often as LS did they expect instant success and it's just not that simple. They need time to develop a Welsh team and build towards success on the field in this way.

That's what worries me about the move north, it has a fair bit going for it, no competition and no massive animosity to RL if anything the opposite. However I feel like they are going to be back to square one with regards to getting Welsh players in the team. The best thing about being in South Wales was they had a whole lot of rugby players to pick from who wanted to have a go at League or were disillusioned with Union. They won't have these in the north and it would be naive to think that they can still do this to the same extent with only a Championship One side over 100 miles away.

Therefore it's going to need more commitment than South Wales would have done and do we realistically think that they are going to be that committed? Here's hoping the owners fall in love with the game.

Completely agree BR , Rovers were always the big town club with a large dormant support base when you were down with us , I have argued with many on the Leigh MB that we need a minimum of 4,000 at the level we are now to ever be able to get anywhere near to the size of support needed to finance a viable SL operation , the days of any of the smaller clubs moving up is probably over

So what is needed is a re think by the RFL on how the lower tier clubs we have can be maintained , Toulouse and attracting a Sugar Daddy just doesn't cut it I'm afraid

I suppose this move is a very good one for Chester Gladiators. It should help with recruitment and give the players something to aim for.

Good luck!

1. promoted from nl2 to 1 in first yr
2. 2nd in NL1
3. own ground
4. rich backer
5. expansion area.
6. junior development
etc.

yeah the RFL sure made a big mistake taking that risk. hindsights a wonderful thing though

rubbish

for example barrow won NL1 this year, you won the NRC (thats right isnt it)

if franchising were being made today it would be you in SL not barrow as you are the stronger club

being able to fluke one game shouldnt be the sole criteria into SL.

and the clubs that are in SL i would say deserve it mostly as the most succesful clubs over time in england. the ones that arent deserve where they are mainly.

so you do think you know better than the RFL

so my comment on leaving it to NL1 and 2 fans to make expansion decisions was the right description

good to see youve admitted finally, if slowly.

i get the truth from you guys eventually.

It wasn't hindsight to anybody who had been down there and seen the setup , as I explained a couple of days ago

HTH

No we explained all this to you yesterday , please keep up