FORUMS FORUMS



  
FORUMS > The Virtual Terrace > The momentum rule versus forward passes
120 posts in 9 pages 
<<   PREV  NEXT   >>
Subscribe | Moderators: Admin, Durham Giant , TimperleySaint
RankPostsTeam
Club Coach7343
JoinedServiceReputation
Oct 200420 years
OnlineLast PostLast Page
Oct 2024May 2024LINK
Milestone Posts
0
100
Milestone Years
0510 1520 2530
Location
Signature
TO BE FIXED



Quote: Kosh "Sweet Baby Jeezus... icon_lol.gif

RankPostsTeam
Club Coach7343
JoinedServiceReputation
Oct 200420 years
OnlineLast PostLast Page
Oct 2024May 2024LINK
Milestone Posts
0
100
Milestone Years
0510 1520 2530
Location
Signature
TO BE FIXED



Quote: tb "Right. As the rules of the game clearly state. It's judged by its direction of travel relative to the passing player (and it's a basic fact of the 'real world' that all direction is relative to something).'"


Yes, and the position of the passing player is determined in relation to fixed ground markings, if this wasn't the case, like in the real world, direction would have little meaning.

tb
RankPostsTeam
International Chairman48326
JoinedServiceReputation
Mar 200223 years
OnlineLast PostLast Page
Sep 2023Oct 2022LINK
Milestone Posts
0
100
Milestone Years
0510 1520 2530
Location
Signature
TO BE FIXED



Quote: Kelvin's Ferret "Yes, and the position of the passing player is determined in relation to fixed ground markings, '"



and?

tb
RankPostsTeam
International Chairman48326
JoinedServiceReputation
Mar 200223 years
OnlineLast PostLast Page
Sep 2023Oct 2022LINK
Milestone Posts
0
100
Milestone Years
0510 1520 2530
Location
Signature
TO BE FIXED



Quote: Lost in Leeds "

Man running at 11m/s towards opponents line. '"


btw – that about a 9s 100m – he'd be coining it on the athletics circuit, not playing rugby league, if he could run at that pace icon_wink.gif

DHM
RankPostsTeam
Player Coach8893
JoinedServiceReputation
May 200619 years
OnlineLast PostLast Page
Apr 2024Apr 2024LINK
Milestone Posts
0
100
Milestone Years
0510 1520 2530
Location
Signature
TO BE FIXED



Quote: Lost in Leeds "I'm gonna regret this and try and make as realistic to speeds of player and ball.

Man running at 11m/s towards opponents line. Passes ball as he crosses half way line at 30m/s laterally and 0.5m/s behind him. In 1 second, ball has travelled 30m laterally and 10.5m forward(11m/s forward and .5m backward). Receiver started on the 51m line catches the ball near opponents 40m line.

'"


That's only reaslistic if the player is Usain Bolt crossed with Wally Lewis and he's running in a vacuum.

RankPostsTeam
Club Owner10000No
Team
Selected
JoinedServiceReputation
Feb 200421 years
OnlineLast PostLast Page
Dec 2020Nov 2020LINK
Milestone Posts
0
100
Milestone Years
0510 1520 2530
Location
Signature
TO BE FIXED



Quote: Lost in Leeds "I'm gonna regret this and try and make as realistic to speeds of player and ball.

Man running at 11m/s towards opponents line. Passes ball as he crosses half way line at 30m/s laterally and 0.5m/s behind him. In 1 second, ball has travelled 30m laterally and 10.5m forward(11m/s forward and .5m backward). Receiver started on the 51m line catches the ball near opponents 40m line.

Is this a forward pass-
receiver started behind the thrower.
Ball is thrown back at 0.5m/s
Ball is caught 10.5m ahead of start location.

Using simple physics the answer is no, ref doesnt have time to do calculation so guesses the direction of players hands by using the marker lines as a reference , player scores out wide, everyone shouts forward pass, Stevo claims momentum rule.
I have used an extreme case which I have no doubt would result in the ref feeling obliged to call forward.'"


Apart from the speed of the player being totally unrealistic (even Usain couldn't pass a ball at that speed), we'll just go with this a second...

How far backwards and at what velocity would this player have to pass the ball in order for the laws of physics NOT to take the ball over the relative mark on the pitch which you would declare forward? I'm guessing pretty far and pretty fast!

RankPostsTeam
Club Coach7343
JoinedServiceReputation
Oct 200420 years
OnlineLast PostLast Page
Oct 2024May 2024LINK
Milestone Posts
0
100
Milestone Years
0510 1520 2530
Location
Signature
TO BE FIXED



Quote: tb "wtf has that got to do with anything under discussion on this thread?'"


The point is that passing is the only part of the game I can think of where the actual direction of movement is not necessarily calculated as relative to fixed points on the ground, although the position of the players involved relative to those fixed positions is used to make a judgement about the direction the pass may travel in.

Dux
RankPostsTeam
International Board Member4411
JoinedServiceReputation
Mar 200322 years
OnlineLast PostLast Page
Feb 2024Apr 2018LINK
Milestone Posts
0
100
Milestone Years
0510 1520 2530
Location
Signature
TO BE FIXED



Quote: Kelvin's Ferret "The only true way of judging the direction the ball is propelled in is the direction it was actually propelled in after the fact, not some kind of half baked counterfactual whereby we make a guess at which direction it might be going to go based on the biomechanics of the player making the pass and then say that a guess will do regardless of what actually happens. The way it looks like it might go, is not the same as where it did go.

Everything on the pitch is relative to the ground as marked out by fixed markers like lines and flags, as long as a player is on the pitch their direction can and is judged relative to fixed lines. A player could not be judged onside or offside if we were not fixing position in some way relative to the ground, if it was simply a matter of position relative to another player then direction would be entirely meaningless within the operation of the game.'"


Lets try forgetting about biomechanics and counterfactuals for a second.

If you chuck a rugby ball backwards from the window of a moving train, the momentum of the train will cause it to land a good distance ahead of where you chucked it from. Relative to the ground, the ball has travelled a good distance forward, yet you chucked - shall we say [ipropelled[/i - the ball backwards.

The same thing happens when a moving rugby player passes a ball backwards to a supporting player. He throws it backwards to a guy behind him, but in relation to the ground it has gone forward. So according to your system, we should be blowing up for forward passes when somebody passes the ball backwards to somebody who is behind them.

Judgements for offside have nothing to do with it, as the momentum of two players has no bearing on their relative position at a given point in time.

RankPostsTeam
Club Owner885No
Team
Selected
JoinedServiceReputation
Sep 200321 years
OnlineLast PostLast Page
Jul 2016Oct 2015LINK
Milestone Posts
0
100
Milestone Years
0510 1520 2530
Location
Signature
TO BE FIXED



Many many years ago when I started watching the game, 63 years to be exact, the attacking line out covered nearly half the length of the field. If play was on the right handside halfway line the opposite winger in the line would be virtually on his own try line. Players were coached and taught to turn their bodies and pass not half a metre or even a metre backwards but 3 and 4 metres backwards.

This modern day game of flat lines and "flat" passes has brought about what is perceived to be unlimited forward passes but I still don't think that a referee watches the players hands every time a ball is passed. There is absolutely no way that he does that and therefore many blatant forward passes are missed by him.

What I find fascinating watching the SL on TV is how it is always the home fans who shout "forward" when it's the opposition in possession but never when their own team are in possession. icon_rolleyes.gif icon_rolleyes.gif icon_rolleyes.gif

RankPostsTeam
Club Owner229No
Team
Selected
JoinedServiceReputation
Mar 200421 years
OnlineLast PostLast Page
May 2019May 2019LINK
Milestone Posts
0
100
Milestone Years
0510 1520 2530
Location
Signature
TO BE FIXED



Usain Bolt runs faster than that.
Surely you can appreciate the simple physics here. icon_wink.gif Bolt starts from 0m/s, allows for a minimum response time of circa 0.15 secs, allows for the time it takes to accelerate from 0m/s/ upto his flat out speed and bingo

120 posts in 9 pages 
<<   PREV  NEXT   >>
Subscribe | Moderators: Admin, Durham Giant , TimperleySaint
120 posts in 9 pages 
<<   PREV  NEXT   >>
Subscribe | Moderators: Admin, Durham Giant , TimperleySaint



All views expressed are those of the author and not necessarily those of the RLFANS.COM or its subsites.

Whilst every effort is made to ensure that news stories, articles and images are correct, we cannot be held responsible for errors. However, if you feel any material on this website is copyrighted or incorrect in any way please contact us using the link at the top of the page so we can remove it or negotiate copyright permission.

RLFANS.COM, the owners of this website, is not responsible for the content of its sub-sites or posts, please email the author of this sub-site or post if you feel you find an article offensive or of a choice nature that you disagree with.

Copyright 1999 - 2024 RLFANS.COM

You must be 18+ to gamble, for more information and for help with gambling issues see https://www.begambleaware.org/.



Please Support RLFANS.COM


1.40966796875:10
RLFANS Recent Posts
FORUM
LAST
POST
TOPIC
POSTER
POSTS
11m
2025 Squad Numbers
Dave K.
11
19m
Realistic targets for 2025
Jake the Peg
143
36m
Shirt reveal coming soon
PopTart
49
39m
Pre Season - 2025
Armavinit
213
Recent
Film game
karetaker
5859
Recent
Matty Ashurst testimonial dinner
Big lads mat
1
Recent
Transfer Talk V5
Jack Burton
546
Recent
ALL NEW 49ERS ERA LEEDS UTD THREAD
MeanwoodGuy
2630
FORUM
LAST
VIEW
TOPIC
POSTER
POSTS
1m
Shirt reveal coming soon
PopTart
49
1m
2025 Recruitment
bowlinboy
228
4m
Matty Ashurst testimonial dinner
Big lads mat
1
4m
BORED The Band Name Game
Boss Hog
63297
5m
ALL NEW 49ERS ERA LEEDS UTD THREAD
MeanwoodGuy
2630
6m
2025 Shirt
--[ WW ]--
27
6m
Pre Season - 2025
Armavinit
213
7m
Game - Song Titles
Boss Hog
40832
7m
Super League
FIL
25
8m
Leeds away first up
FIL
51
FORUM
NEW
TOPICS
TOPIC
POSTER
POSTS
TODAY
Matty Ashurst testimonial dinner
Big lads mat
1
TODAY
2025 Squad Numbers
Dave K.
11
TODAY
England Women Las Vegas train-on squad
RLFANS News
1
TODAY
Quiz night
H.G.S.A
1
TODAY
Co-Captains for 2025
MjM
15
TODAY
Cornwall has a new owner
CM Punk
2
TODAY
Callum Shaw
Wanderer
1
TODAY
Squad Numbers
phe13
4
TODAY
Rhinos squad numbers
Rixy
1
TODAY
Squad numbers
Warrior Wing
8
TODAY
Mat Crowther pre season update
Dunkirk Spir
1
TODAY
Mike Cooper podcast
Wires71
10
TODAY
Shirt reveal coming soon
PopTart
49
TODAY
Opening Championship and League One Fixtures for 2025 Released
RLFANS News
1
NEWS ITEMS
VIEWS
POSTSONLINEREGISTRATIONSRECORD
19.65M 1,810 80,15614,103
LOGIN HERE
or REGISTER for more features!.

When you register you get access to the live match scores, live match chat and you can post in the discussions on the forums.
RLFANS Match Centre
 Thu 13th Feb 2025
     Mens Super League XXX-R1
20:00
Wigan
v
Leigh
 Fri 14th Feb 2025
     Mens Super League XXX-R1
20:00
Hull KR
v
Castleford
20:00
Catalans
v
Hull FC
 Sat 15th Feb 2025
     Mens Super League XXX-R1
15:00
Leeds
v
Wakefield
17:30
St.Helens
v
Salford
       Championship 2025-R1
18:00
Toulouse
v
Widnes
 Sun 16th Feb 2025
     Mens Super League XXX-R1
15:00
Huddersfield
v
Warrington
       Championship 2025-R1
15:00
Bradford
v
LondonB
15:00
Featherstone
v
Doncaster
15:00
Oldham
v
York
15:00
Sheffield
v
Halifax
15:00
Barrow
v
Hunslet
 Thu 20th Feb 2025
     Mens Super League XXX-R2
20:00
Wakefield
v
Hull KR
 Fri 21st Feb 2025
     Mens Super League XXX-R2
20:00
Warrington
v
Catalans
20:00
Hull FC
v
Wigan
 Sat 22nd Feb 2025
     Mens Super League XXX-R2
15:00
Salford
v
Leeds
20:00
Castleford
v
St.Helens
 Sun 23rd Feb 2025
     Mens Super League XXX-R2
14:30
Leigh
v
Huddersfield
       League One 2025-R1
15:00
Cornwall
v
Workington
15:00
Dewsbury
v
Crusaders
ALL SCORES PROVIDED BY RLFANS.COM (SETTINGS)
Matches on TV
Thu 13th Feb
SL
20:00
Wigan-Leigh
Fri 14th Feb
SL
20:00
Hull KR-Castleford
SL
20:00
Catalans-Hull FC
Sat 15th Feb
SL
15:00
Leeds-Wakefield
SL
17:30
St.Helens-Salford
Sun 16th Feb
SL
15:00
Huddersfield-Warrington
Thu 20th Feb
SL
20:00
Wakefield-Hull KR
Fri 21st Feb
SL
20:00
Warrington-Catalans
SL
20:00
Hull FC-Wigan
Sat 22nd Feb
SL
15:00
Salford-Leeds
SL
20:00
Castleford-St.Helens
Sun 23rd Feb
SL
14:30
Leigh-Huddersfield
Fri 28th Feb
SL
20:00
Huddersfield-Hull FC
SL
20:00
Hull KR-Salford
SL
20:00
Leigh-Catalans
Sat 1st Mar
SL
14:30
Wakefield-St.Helens
SL
21:30
Wigan-Warrington
Sun 2nd Mar
SL
15:00
Leeds-Castleford
Thu 6th Mar
SL
20:00
Hull FC-Leigh
Fri 7th Mar
SL
20:00
Castleford-Salford
This is an inplay table and live positions can change.
Mens Betfred Super League XXVIII ROUND : 1
 PLDFADIFFPTS
Wigan 29 768 338 430 48
Hull KR 29 731 344 387 44
Warrington 29 769 351 418 42
Leigh 29 580 442 138 33
Salford 28 556 561 -5 32
St.Helens 28 618 411 207 30
 
Catalans 27 475 427 48 30
Leeds 27 530 488 42 28
Huddersfield 27 468 658 -190 20
Castleford 27 425 735 -310 15
Hull FC 27 328 894 -566 6
LondonB 27 317 916 -599 6
This is an inplay table and live positions can change.
Betfred Championship 2024 ROUND : 1
 PLDFADIFFPTS
Wakefield 27 1032 275 757 52
Toulouse 26 765 388 377 37
Bradford 28 723 420 303 36
York 29 695 501 194 32
Widnes 27 561 502 59 29
Featherstone 27 634 525 109 28
 
Sheffield 26 626 526 100 28
Doncaster 26 498 619 -121 25
Halifax 26 509 650 -141 22
Batley 26 422 591 -169 22
Swinton 28 484 676 -192 20
Barrow 25 442 720 -278 19
Whitehaven 25 437 826 -389 18
Dewsbury 27 348 879 -531 4
Hunslet 1 6 10 -4 0
RLFANS Recent Posts
FORUM
LAST
POST
TOPIC
POSTER
POSTS
11m
2025 Squad Numbers
Dave K.
11
19m
Realistic targets for 2025
Jake the Peg
143
36m
Shirt reveal coming soon
PopTart
49
39m
Pre Season - 2025
Armavinit
213
Recent
Film game
karetaker
5859
Recent
Matty Ashurst testimonial dinner
Big lads mat
1
Recent
Transfer Talk V5
Jack Burton
546
Recent
ALL NEW 49ERS ERA LEEDS UTD THREAD
MeanwoodGuy
2630
FORUM
LAST
VIEW
TOPIC
POSTER
POSTS
1m
Shirt reveal coming soon
PopTart
49
1m
2025 Recruitment
bowlinboy
228
4m
Matty Ashurst testimonial dinner
Big lads mat
1
4m
BORED The Band Name Game
Boss Hog
63297
5m
ALL NEW 49ERS ERA LEEDS UTD THREAD
MeanwoodGuy
2630
6m
2025 Shirt
--[ WW ]--
27
6m
Pre Season - 2025
Armavinit
213
7m
Game - Song Titles
Boss Hog
40832
7m
Super League
FIL
25
8m
Leeds away first up
FIL
51
FORUM
NEW
TOPICS
TOPIC
POSTER
POSTS
TODAY
Matty Ashurst testimonial dinner
Big lads mat
1
TODAY
2025 Squad Numbers
Dave K.
11
TODAY
England Women Las Vegas train-on squad
RLFANS News
1
TODAY
Quiz night
H.G.S.A
1
TODAY
Co-Captains for 2025
MjM
15
TODAY
Cornwall has a new owner
CM Punk
2
TODAY
Callum Shaw
Wanderer
1
TODAY
Squad Numbers
phe13
4
TODAY
Rhinos squad numbers
Rixy
1
TODAY
Squad numbers
Warrior Wing
8
TODAY
Mat Crowther pre season update
Dunkirk Spir
1
TODAY
Mike Cooper podcast
Wires71
10
TODAY
Shirt reveal coming soon
PopTart
49
TODAY
Opening Championship and League One Fixtures for 2025 Released
RLFANS News
1
NEWS ITEMS
VIEWS


Visit the RLFANS.COM SHOP
for more merchandise!