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International Board Member | 8627 | Doncaster RLFC |
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Nov 2003 | 22 years | |
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| Quote Colly2="Colly2"Leaving aside slow PTBs and a lack of space in Test match rugby, Roby and Clark are stronger in the upper body and much better defenders than McIlorum. I wouldn't be surprised if McIlorum misses 2 or 3 times as many tackles as his rival hookers. Please let's not pick MM on the myth of him being the best defensive hooker around.'"
Stats on the subject seem to back this up:
MM - attempted 408, missed 32 (~8% missed)
DC - attempted 725, missed 34 (~5% missed)
JR - attempted 1089, missed 35 (~3% missed)
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Club Coach | 10530 | Rochdale Hornets |
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Nov 2005 | 20 years | |
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| On a slightly seperate issue... Do we actually need 2 hookers in the 17? Roby does 80 minutes every week so would having an extra forward on the bench or a utility back be a better option?
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International Board Member | 8627 | Doncaster RLFC |
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Nov 2003 | 22 years | |
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| Quote Charlie Sheen="Charlie Sheen"On a slightly seperate issue... Do we actually need 2 hookers in the 17? Roby does 80 minutes every week so would having an extra forward on the bench or a utility back be a better option?'"
It probably doesn't matter. On McNamara's previous form he will probably just go with 16 men in the important games. Anyway, half the squad will have been sent home before we get to any games of interest.
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International Star | 49 | No Team Selected |
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| Quote EHW="EHW"Stats on the subject seem to back this up:
MM - attempted 408, missed 32 (~8% missed)
DC - attempted 725, missed 34 (~5% missed)
JR - attempted 1089, missed 35 (~3% missed)'"
theres no stat on how hard they hit though is there? and I would wager MM hits than the other 2.
He also leads by example in terms of aggression and line speed.
Ask Warea-Hargreaves if MM is a goog defender?
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International Board Member | 8627 | Doncaster RLFC |
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| Quote whiston_warrior="whiston_warrior"theres no stat on how hard they hit though is there? and I would wager MM hits than the other 2.
He also leads by example in terms of aggression and line speed.
Ask Warea-Hargreaves if MM is a goog defender?'"
Is his dad harder than theirs too?
No good being hard if you miss the man 8% of the time.
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| Quote dubairl="dubairl"I hope not!
Smith and Widdop, classic partnership a runner with a player maker.'"
id be happy to see widdop and smith as the half backs too. best option i suppose!
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| Roby & Lunt.
However, with Sinfield stepping aside & Burrow perhaps not available it's an even more important question.
I'd rather Roby played 80 minutes and had to do less defending. Better game control by England would certainly help that. Bigger forwards like George Burgess need to be able to play as long as any of their Aussie & Kiwi counterparts.
Hopefully another year's experience in the NRL will have addressed this.
The Kiwis beat us at Wembley by running at lads like Burgess late on in the game.
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| Quote EHW="EHW"Is his dad harder than theirs too?
No good being hard if you miss the man 8% of the time.'"
There's a lot more to defence than tackle percentage decided by opta. Sean O'Loughlin has a similar missed tackle percentage and if anyone calls him a bad defender it's pistols at dawn i'm afraid. What they do is charge up at the ball carrier to stop them in their tracks, this can lead to misses but also oftens stops the other team doing what they intended to do.
McIlorum is great at winning the collision and controlling the ptb, this is very important and isn't show in stats. As people like to point out he hurts the opposition, often legally sometimes illegally but he's more controlled now. He's only been penalised 8 times this season. He also makes great cover tackles, traps people in goal on kick chases, he's basically everywhere in defence.
He's become better in attack as well though. His distribution looks great now.
The main thing is he plays his best in the biggest games, taking on the opposition's biggest best forwards and often winning. His best performances have been in play off games and Grand Finals. Look at the Magic game this year, we were missing O'Loughlin, Farrell, Flower, Clubb, Pettybourne didn't have Joel back yet and McIlorum stood up took it to the Leeds pack dragged them into a fight and won us the game. He was head and shoulders the best player in that game.
Compare that with Clark at Wembley were he got pretty much shown up for me, that's the environment he'll be in for England and I'm not sure he's ready yet.
Having said all that Roby is so good I'm not sure we'll need anyone else. If they're going for an interchange hooker I say start McIlorum bring on Roby but i would be happy to see Roby do the 80. McIlorum should be in the squad ahead of any other hooker though and he will be.
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Club Coach | 10399 | No Team Selected |
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| Roby does play 80 minutes for Saints, but he'd still benefit from being spelled, I think. Especially at the end of a long season.
If you did take Roby and McIlorum, I can imagine them both spending 50-60 minutes on the pitch, meaning they over lap.
I think you need to dig up a better plan to beat the Aussies than a bit of niggle from MM, but his naturally aggressive defending means perhaps he'll lead the defensive line speed well. Hustle in defence goes a long way for an underdog team.
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Club Coach | 7152 | Wigan Warriors |
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| Quote Major Tom="Major Tom"There's a lot more to defence than tackle percentage decided by opta. Sean O'Loughlin has a similar missed tackle percentage and if anyone calls him a bad defender it's pistols at dawn i'm afraid. What they do is charge up at the ball carrier to stop them in their tracks, this can lead to misses but also oftens stops the other team doing what they intended to do.
McIlorum is great at winning the collision and controlling the ptb, this is very important and isn't show in stats. As people like to point out he hurts the opposition, often legally sometimes illegally but he's more controlled now. He's only been penalised 8 times this season. He also makes great cover tackles, traps people in goal on kick chases, he's basically everywhere in defence.
He's become better in attack as well though. His distribution looks great now.
The main thing is he plays his best in the biggest games, taking on the opposition's biggest best forwards and often winning. His best performances have been in play off games and Grand Finals. Look at the Magic game this year, we were missing O'Loughlin, Farrell, Flower, Clubb, Pettybourne didn't have Joel back yet and McIlorum stood up took it to the Leeds pack dragged them into a fight and won us the game. He was head and shoulders the best player in that game.
Compare that with Clark at Wembley were he got pretty much shown up for me, that's the environment he'll be in for England and I'm not sure he's ready yet.
Having said all that Roby is so good I'm not sure we'll need anyone else. If they're going for an interchange hooker I say start McIlorum bring on Roby but i would be happy to see Roby do the 80. McIlorum should be in the squad ahead of any other hooker though and he will be.'"
This.
Plus Roby and Clark are fairly similar, though Roby is streets ahead and I agree his game has developed way beyond his scoot trademark of a few years ago, he's a different class. Meanwhile MM gives us another option, a different style. Roby has to be the first choice and I'd also be happy if he did 80 most games and we only saw MM in spells, but I'd take him for the options he brings.
If anyone thinks a bit of 'mongrel' is outdated, just look at how Ennis got under Cam Smith's skin a few weeks ago when they spanked Melbourne and how MM got under Leeds' skin at Magic. Ennis is a master at putting players off their game and while MM isn't as much of a WUM, he certainly lets his opposite number know he's there and will be in their faces all game, walloping them around the park.
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May 2014 | 11 years | |
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| Quote Major Tom="Major Tom"There's a lot more to defence than tackle percentage decided by opta. Sean O'Loughlin has a similar missed tackle percentage and if anyone calls him a bad defender it's pistols at dawn i'm afraid. What they do is charge up at the ball carrier to stop them in their tracks, this can lead to misses but also oftens stops the other team doing what they intended to do.
McIlorum is great at winning the collision and controlling the ptb, this is very important and isn't show in stats. As people like to point out he hurts the opposition, often legally sometimes illegally but he's more controlled now. He's only been penalised 8 times this season. He also makes great cover tackles, traps people in goal on kick chases, he's basically everywhere in defence.
He's become better in attack as well though. His distribution looks great now.
The main thing is he plays his best in the biggest games, taking on the opposition's biggest best forwards and often winning. His best performances have been in play off games and Grand Finals. Look at the Magic game this year, we were missing O'Loughlin, Farrell, Flower, Clubb, Pettybourne didn't have Joel back yet and McIlorum stood up took it to the Leeds pack dragged them into a fight and won us the game. He was head and shoulders the best player in that game.
Compare that with Clark at Wembley were he got pretty much shown up for me, that's the environment he'll be in for England and I'm not sure he's ready yet.
Having said all that Roby is so good I'm not sure we'll need anyone else. If they're going for an interchange hooker I say start McIlorum bring on Roby but i would be happy to see Roby do the 80. McIlorum should be in the squad ahead of any other hooker though and he will be.'"
McIllorum had chances to shine in the 4N last November & did nothing. Remember him coming on against Fiji, giving away silly penalties & being taken off again after playing less than 15 minutes.
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| There's room to take 3 hookers, we had roby, mcllorum and burrow in the world cup squad, I think Roby Mcllorum and Clark should and will all go.
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