The pickle Leeds are in reminds me a little of the situation Chelsea were in in the last wendyball season. Too many ego's in the dressing room that think they know better than the coach and will point at their winners medal collection when the coach tries to take them to task. The term "nest of vipers" sums it up I think. It tends to happens whenever the same group of players remain successful through several coaches. The sooner McDermott goes the sooner things will turn around there I'll bet, although whether the senior players at Leeds are still capable of producing at the required level remains to be seen

Is there any evidence that this is actually the situation?

It doesn't take the backing of the bosses to drop under performing players.

Powell was made Director of Rugby, not disposed by the club. Was it true he didn't even have any coaching badges?
Smith left for the national job, not because the players didn't want him. He won the SL with them in his last year.
McClennan left a year early from his contract of his own accord.

Basically, you've just made all that up!

No he hasn't. Powell was shuffled sideways/backwards but the other two were basically, without being sacked, forced out of the club.

To correct you.

Powell had all his coaching badges before he ever became Leeds coach, he was given a non-job to placate him as he had been with Hetherington since to inception of Sheffield. That job lasted 6 months and he was shipped off to RU. He was supposedly going to take over after Smith but that never came to pass either. No young coach wants a DOR job over that of first team coach. Smith had already announced he was leaving Leeds before the England job came up - the terrible 2006 season did for him. Hetherington just used his control at the RFL to get Smith the job. McClennan would have gone at the end of 2009 but for a contract foul up by the end of 2010 he was not wanted by the players - google Sinfield's comments about the players view on the end of McClennan. Rumour is now that the senior players can no longer work with McDermott so I doubt he will be in charge next season. So not made up - I don't profess to know anything about Hull and you quite clearly know little about Leeds.

Millward and McDermott are in identical positions, the players have lost their respect for them respect for them, but because of the conntracts they are on, they wont be sacked. simple as.

millward has told a lot of the players they won't be at cas next year as "they are crap".
hardly inspiring stuff

It doesn't help that Cas have become a feeder club for Hull

Yes. Well Smith's contract was up at the end of 2007. And McClennan left early for personal reasons.
If the players forced out Tony Smith, would Smith still be so friendly with them?

So the badges thing was just a rumour. That was what I'd heard at the time, but didn't quite believe it. Could you really arbitrate "player power" as the reason Powell was ousted though? The players hadn't won anything under him, and it was a largely different team under Smith. I'd go more with inexperience and lack of results for him being stepped aside.


I've never read anything about Smith announcing he was leaving before then. Everything I've read and heard was him leaving to become GB coach, which was announced fairly early in the 2007 season. And again, how can this be arbitrated to player power?


A contract foul up? You mean they offered him an extra year? Seems pretty intentional, not a foul up!
rlhttp://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/rugby_league/super_league/leeds/7825695.stmrl
And then again the year afterhttp://www.sportinglife.com/rugbyleague/news/story_get.cgi?STORY_NAME

I've tried Googling said phrase, and all I've seen are comments from Sinfield praising McClennan. I've also read that Hetherington didn't want him to go. I've heard the rumours about player power, but again that's just rumour.


If McDermott is sacked, I doubt it will because the players don't want him. It will be because he's gotten the team to perform poorly.


The fact that you've not actually shown anything to back up your point other than peddle what you have already admitted are rumours hardly makes you an expert on Leeds. Having lived in Leeds for 5 of the last 6 years, I've heard plenty of the rumours, and plenty of the contrasting rumours, all from alleged "people in the know". I'm not sure how your lack of professing of knowledge about Hull affects my knowledge about Leeds, but of you want to believe that's how it works then it's up to you!

To be fair, there were comments at the start of 2011 season from the players saying that things had gone stale under McClennan and that players didn't know their roles etc however I've not heard or seen anything about players disliking McClennan or trying to force him out. All I've ever heard from anyone in the club is that he left for personal reasons to do with his family.

No, it's a fact. Sal has already said.

I'd heard rumblings, but that is predictable after a (in Leeds' terms) poor season. However, it's hardly likely they drove him out. Players may have felt things were going stale, but that doesn't mean things couldn't have changed under the same coach.

Keith Senior discusses McClennans tenure at Leeds in his book and said that beyond being a strong motivator, he was short of skills to coach a Super League team week in and week out.

I think that the snipers were out for McClennan when he stood down early, both through his relationship with the players, and the fact that Hetherington brought in McDermott as his assistant who would replace him at the end of the coming season.


Things appear to be stale at Leeds, the game plan hasn't altered as the team has aged, flat balls and offloads dont seem to work in a team that is bereft of pace in the middle of the park and struggle to support the ball.

Ryan Hall's nickname at the club is apparently WBW (Worlds Best Winger) but he seems starved of the ball for long periods of games, there is no X factor at the club anymore, ie McGuire (pre rugby god injury), Ali Lau, Eastwood, Senior etc and yet Leeds still seem to rely on individuals to win games rather than having a game plan, the forwards look beaten on a regular basis and the team seem unable or unwillingly to win arm-wrestle games which is probably why the club has struggled in the league for the last few season against the better teams.

Signing Shaun Lunt was a step in the right direction (ie attepting to replace Buderus) but then McDermott leaves him on the bench for 80minutes against Saints three weeks ago.

All in all Leeds are in, or should be in a transitional period, but seem unwilling to acknowledge this and are just limping along hoping that everything falls into place at the right time like it did in September and October last year.

This time last year you could - and many did - say exactly the same thing. Poorly coached, weak pack, lack of spark etc etc (although to be fair there were a few Leeds fans pinning hopes on McGuire and Peacock returning from injury).

My take on it is that a couple of players have been kept on too long, and Leeds really, desperately lack some dynamism and aggression in the pack. On the personnel side I don't think there's too much else wrong - or that could be sensibly done under the salary cap.

The real issue IMO is that the senior players are complacent. Whether they like BM or not doesn't matter - patently the guy cannot get them to compete every week. There is absolutely no way this is BM's plan - particularly last year as a brand new coach he would have wanted to try to win every game. The fact that the team could turn it on at the end of the season (and against Manly this year as well) tells its own story that its down to the attitude amongst the squad.

I'd be willing to bet that there are more than a couple of players within Leeds' squad who DO believe in the 'mythical back end' to the season. Whilst I'd love to see Leeds turn it around and do the double, in some ways I wouldn't be too upset if they can't, and players have to totally re-evaluate the way they are approaching the season. Not turning up for home games against the likes of Wigan and Sts should be considered completely unacceptable by all concerned - not just suffering fans.

I think you're spot on there Brisbane. The only time in the Wigan game when we started tackling properly (ie getting the shoulder in) or running in anywhere near fast or hard enough was just after the incident with JJB. But that only lasted a few minutes.
If we can beat Manly we can at least be competitive against the top of SL, but it appears too many are taking shortcuts. Not getting in position defensively, not getting the shoulder in and dominating the tackle, not running from deep enough, not helping out teammates by providing a dummy run etc.