FORUMS > The Virtual Terrace > Bradford |
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| Quote: Mr Dog "The head lease between the RFL and BMDC is at a peppercorn rate. The sublease between the Bulls and the RFL is supposedly £72k pa -this is effectively them paying back the loan given to the last but one but one(?) incarnation of the club. The big costs are maintenance, which the new owners should really have known if they had performed the required due diligence before setting up shop there. A few years of consolidation as a PT club should really have been the way to go rather than signing up a squad of 35 with 22 FT players and going for instant success.'"
I’ve seen this “due diligence” rubbish spouted by a few people including the usual “experts” in the press. The knobs at forty20 magazine.
Fact is you can only do “due diligence” based on accounts made available by the administrator. These are inturn what the administrator has managed to put together in a rush based on what they could find. Given the people running the club before the last administration (Marc Green’s crew) proved to be not that great at accounting I’m guessing the true scale of the costs involved weren’t that obvious. They certainly were after Chalmers had had to pump in half a million after year one to cover the losses.
You know cutting your cloth and all that other garbage people come out with.
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International Star | 1977 | |
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Dec 2010 | 14 years | |
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| Quote: Pumpetypump "There's a few people that have been involved in the never ending Bradford saga who could do with being locked up. Poetic justice to do so at Odsal.'"
You think any of who you refer to are still involved?
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Player Coach | 9554 | |
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Jun 2005 | 19 years | |
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| Quote: Maccbull_BigBullyBooaza "Just to clear up some misconceptions here.
The RFL have a leasehold on the ground that has 130 odd years left to run. There was a covenant that it’s primary use had to be as a rugby league stadium. That ended 31st May 2019.
The Company trading as Bradford Bulls has a sub lease that runs out 30th September 2019.
Also Michael Carter and Neil Hudgell have gone public in their desire to purchase RFL’s leasehold. Unless that was b0ll0x from a pair of gobsh17es.
So everyone is a winner apart from the fans who have to travel to home games for the foreseeable.'"
The covenant that ran out in may 2019 was related to the odsal settlement made when bulls moved back to odsal from Valley parade. It locked bulls into playing majority of their first team games at odsal. If they moved before this date they had to repay part of the settlement money.
The Covenant saying the ground has to be used for professional rugby is for the duration of the head lease, ie another 130 yrs.
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| IIRC The RFL bailed out Bradford by buying the stadium at a large price and now the are still complaining about rent etc?
So if this move is allowed to go through, the RFL will have sunk a large amount of money into this single club and the only chance of now getting their money back is a sale if the ground which might not be possible?
In hindsight (and many said this at the time) Bradford should have been allowed to fold. If they had, a reformed Bradford might have rebuilt better than the current team already.
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Player Coach | 3829 | |
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Oct 2005 | 19 years | |
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| Quote: Gallanteer "IIRC The RFL bailed out Bradford by buying the stadium at a large price and now the are still complaining about rent etc?
So if this move is allowed to go through, the RFL will have sunk a large amount of money into this single club and the only chance of now getting their money back is a sale if the ground which might not be possible?
In hindsight (and many said this at the time) Bradford should have been allowed to fold. If they had, a reformed Bradford might have rebuilt better than the current team already.'"
Cool story Bro, however, the R.F.L. didn't buy the stadium!
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Apr 2011 | 14 years | |
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| Quote: Maccbull_BigBullyBooaza "Just to clear up some misconceptions here.
The RFL have a leasehold on the ground that has 130 odd years left to run. There was a covenant that it’s primary use had to be as a rugby league stadium. That ended 31st May 2019.
The Company trading as Bradford Bulls has a sub lease that runs out 30th September 2019.
Also Michael Carter and Neil Hudgell have gone public in their desire to purchase RFL’s leasehold. Unless that was b0ll0x from a pair of gobsh17es.
So everyone is a winner apart from the fans who have to travel to home games for the foreseeable.'"
And the RFL who, despite "helping" Bradford on numerous occasions, now look like being left with a lease which is no good to them and although they could possibly offload this back to Bradford Council, just how much would the council or anyone else pay them for the lease ??
They (the RFL) seem to have little choice other than to "force" Bradford to stay - interesting times.
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Player Coach | 12310 | |
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Oct 2006 | 18 years | |
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| Quote: wrencat1873 "And the RFL who, despite "helping" Bradford on numerous occasions, now look like being left with a lease which is no good to them and although they could possibly offload this back to Bradford Council, just how much would the council or anyone else pay them for the lease ??
They (the RFL) seem to have little choice other than to "force" Bradford to stay - interesting times.'"
If Chalmers is telling the truth, rather than this being brinkmanship, then the RFL refusing approval would surely put the Bulls back into admin.
What a massive conflict of interest, out of character for the RFL to male an almighty cock up.
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| Quote: Gallanteer "In hindsight (and many said this at the time) Bradford should have been allowed to fold. If they had, a reformed Bradford might have rebuilt better than the current team already.'"
Well we did fold. We ceased to exist. It's just the RFL insisted that the new start club start in the championship rather than in ch1 purely as it was an inconvenience to change the fixture list. I don't think that was fair on Bradford with no players, nor fair on the integrity of the game where other new clubs have to start at the bottom. Most of us wanted to start afresh in ch1.
I'd challenge the school of thought that Bradford have been entirely on the end of altruistic favours from the RFL (but then I would wouldn't I). Many of the 'favours' have transpired to be miniature nooses.
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| Quote: Ewwenorfolk "If Chalmers is telling the truth, rather than this being brinkmanship, then the RFL refusing approval would surely put the Bulls back into admin.
What a massive conflict of interest, out of character for the RFL to male an almighty cock up.'"
Unless there is a clause in the lease which would allow the RFL to "sell" the lease back to the council, I dont see that they have too much choice other than "insist" that Bradford remain there.
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Club Coach | 5880 | No Team Selected |
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Mar 2005 | 20 years | |
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| Quote: Gallanteer "IIRC The RFL bailed out Bradford by buying the stadium at a large price and now the are still complaining about rent etc?
So if this move is allowed to go through, the RFL will have sunk a large amount of money into this single club and the only chance of now getting their money back is a sale if the ground which might not be possible?
In hindsight (and many said this at the time) Bradford should have been allowed to fold. If they had, a reformed Bradford might have rebuilt better than the current team already.'"
No, quite clearly you did not 'remember correctly', because the entirety of this post is incorrect.
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| Quote: wrencat1873 "Unless there is a clause in the lease which would allow the RFL to "sell" the lease back to the council, I dont see that they have too much choice other than "insist" that Bradford remain there.'"
“I have a house to rent and no tennant after 30th september.
I insist that you rent it and don’t live anywhere else. I also insist you pay to bring it up to standard as it’s now inhabitable as I haven’t spent any money on repairs.”
They might try that but I can’t see it standing up in court.
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Club Owner | 1276 | No Team Selected |
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Apr 2004 | 21 years | |
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| Quote: Maccbull_BigBullyBooaza "I’ve seen this “due diligence” rubbish spouted by a few people including the usual “experts” in the press. The knobs at forty20 magazine.
Fact is you can only do “due diligence” based on accounts made available by the administrator. These are inturn what the administrator has managed to put together in a rush based on what they could find. Given the people running the club before the last administration (Marc Green’s crew) proved to be not that great at accounting I’m guessing the true scale of the costs involved weren’t that obvious. They certainly were after Chalmers had had to pump in half a million after year one to cover the losses.
You know cutting your cloth and all that other garbage people come out with.'"
Due diligence is more than just looking at numbers provided. Anyway just for you, caveat emptor.
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| Just to change the direction of this topic:-
I for one wish Bradford success in their move - firstly to Dewsbury, a nice Championship ground, where they will create a tremendous atmosphere - and then, hopefully, to a new home of their own, in the city of Bradford.
Whatever may, or may not have happened in the past, (and we've virtually all been there, at some time or the other) I relish the games between our clubs and, without them, RL would be all the poorer.
Good luck guys!
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| Quote: Maccbull_BigBullyBooaza "“I have a house to rent and no tennant after 30th september.
I insist that you rent it and don’t live anywhere else. I also insist you pay to bring it up to standard as it’s now inhabitable as I haven’t spent any money on repairs.”
They might try that but I can’t see it standing up in court.'"
Except that’s not the situation is it.
It’s more like:
Bradford - I’m broke and potentially homeless, please someone help. I spent money on gambling for decades, won big a few times and then lost it all. Through that whole time I didn’t bother keeping my house up to scratch. I then sold it to cover some debts a while ago and rented it back. Now I need some help.
RFL - Ok we’ll ensure no-one else can buy your house so they can’t kick you out of it. We’ll need you to pay us back though.
Bradford now - the rents too high, the house is rubbish and it’s all your fault! I want to move out and move in with my mate down the road whilst you and somebody else build me a new house to live in.
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Rank | Posts | Team |
International Star | 17982 | |
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Apr 2011 | 14 years | |
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| Quote: Maccbull_BigBullyBooaza "“I have a house to rent and no tennant after 30th september.
I insist that you rent it and don’t live anywhere else. I also insist you pay to bring it up to standard as it’s now inhabitable as I haven’t spent any money on repairs.”
They might try that but I can’t see it standing up in court.'"
It's the bundle of cash that Bradford received, which preceded the rental agreement that make this one a special case.
They took a significant handout and agreed to pay the RFL a commercial rent, as opposed to the "peppercorn" rent that they had previously paid Bradford council and now they dont want to pay that rent.
You can see why the RFL may be unwilling to help them walk away
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