FORUMS > The Virtual Terrace > Super 8s |
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| Quote: SmokeyTA "Would you see the bottom of league 1 relegated and the top amateur side promoted'"
If that was how the league structure was agreed then, there is no problem.
If there are only 2 or 3 "professional" leagues then, the bottom of the last tier would "only" get the proverbial wooden spoon.
However, IF the system was 1 up 1 down or, promotion/relegation through a play off game, so be it.
As others have said, there is nothing worse than getting relegated (apart from going out of business) but, the alternative is to create a closed shop.
There are of course arguments for having a "franchise" based top flight and this may be a good thing (especially with "expansion" clubs like Toulouse and Toronto in the comp) but, for now, we have promotion and relegation between the leagues.
Is this the beast system for the long term good of the game, who knows and the lack of a long term strategy is criminal but, to relegate a pro club into an amateur league and visa versa clearly wouldn't work.
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Player Coach | 22777 | |
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May 2006 | 19 years | |
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| Quote: Grimmy "No, the NCL is amateur, League 1 is semi-pro/pro. Plus half the clubs in League 1 are there with a view to expanding the game, so it makes sense that we need to artificially keep them in there for now when in reality the best NCL clubs are better on the field. Besides that, Siddall, Leigh Miners etc don't have the facilities to deal with crowds they would potentially get in League 1.'"
So what you are saying is that there is a gap between those two leagues in things like club size, facilities etc that would make it hugely damaging for the team going down and often hugely damaging for the team going up
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Player Coach | 22777 | |
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| Quote: wrencat1873 "If that was how the league structure was agreed then, there is no problem.'"
That's a little circular isn't it? Whether we have it or not its merits would be the same.
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Rank | Posts | Team |
Club Captain | 2418 | No Team Selected |
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Mar 2016 | 9 years | |
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| Quote: Hillbilly_Red ""Where did you finish after the 7 middle 8 games?"
IN THE PUB'"
No doubt happy that you still had another chance
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Club Captain | 2418 | No Team Selected |
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Mar 2016 | 9 years | |
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| Quote: Code13 "Automatic p&r kills the game
It's terrible for all the clubs involved, including those chasing promotion
We had a decade of comparative growth and stability and an improvement in the overall competition
Now it's just a race to avoid bottom & that just benefits the top 4 clubs, just like it has since 1973
P&r failed for decades and it's failing again'"
We don't have Automatic P and R
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Club Captain | 29 | No Team Selected |
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Jan 2016 | 9 years | |
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| Quote: Grimmy "So do you
I think the points in the super8s should start back at 0 but the team finishing in 1st get 7 home games team in 2nd get 6 3rd 5 and so on.
Negatives selling season tickets ect not knowing home many home games at the beginning of the session how many home game a team would have....
Positives each position higher in the league you finish the more advantage you have but doesn't count any team out from the beginning like has happened in the last 2years.
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Moderator | 6051 | |
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Feb 2012 | 13 years | |
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| Quote: SmokeyTA "Would you see the bottom of league 1 relegated and the top amateur side promoted'"
If that was the agreed set up at the start of a particular season then why not subject to certain qualifying criteria?
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| Quote: Uncle Rico "If that was the agreed set up at the start of a particular season then why not subject to certain qualifying criteria?'" because it would massively damage any league 1 club to ask them to play amateur RL for at least a year, and very few amateur clubs are in anyway capable of functioning as a semi-pro club?
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Club Captain | 2418 | No Team Selected |
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Mar 2016 | 9 years | |
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| Quote: Uncle Rico "If that was the agreed set up at the start of a particular season then why not subject to certain qualifying criteria?'"
Essentially yes , at that level there isn't necessarily the need to relegate
Obviously all dependant on if the amateur club wants to become professional
So no real issue , just mischief making to suggest it
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Feb 2012 | 13 years | |
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| Quote: GUBRATS "Essentially yes , at that level there isn't necessarily the need to relegate
Obviously all dependant on if the amateur club wants to become professional
So no real issue , just mischief making to suggest it'"
I agree and understand that 'our' co correspondent was probably having a casual prod on their keyboard for a bit of close season sport
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Club Captain | 1789 | No Team Selected |
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Sep 2016 | 8 years | |
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| Realistically teams and fans of those teams know at the start of the season that they probably won't win anything so just because when it comes to the 8s they don't really stand a chance of getting in the top 4 shouldn't come as a surprise and shouldn't be seen as unfair. There are always good teams and worse teams and that's the way it is. Better recruitment and finding a better coach is what people should be bemoaning for why their club has no real chance of the top 4, not the system.
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Rank | Posts | Team |
Player Coach | 22777 | |
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May 2006 | 19 years | |
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Jun 2020 | Feb 2018 | LINK |
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| Quote: Psychedelic Casual "Realistically teams and fans of those teams know at the start of the season that they probably won't win anything so just because when it comes to the 8s they don't really stand a chance of getting in the top 4 shouldn't come as a surprise and shouldn't be seen as unfair. There are always good teams and worse teams and that's the way it is. Better recruitment and finding a better coach is what people should be bemoaning for why their club has no real chance of the top 4, not the system.'"
The problem isn't that not all clubs can win, that much is obvious. The problem is that whole section of the season is utterly pointless and it's a very long season.
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International Star | 6848 | No Team Selected |
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Jul 2012 | 12 years | |
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| Quote: SmokeyTA "The problem isn't that not all clubs can win, that much is obvious. The problem is that whole section of the season is utterly pointless and it's a very long season.'"
Like i said in an earlier post, there will be years when it will be far tighter between teams in the super 8's and people will be saying how great it is and we will have some great matches as sides slug it out to make the play off positions.It's a shame we have had it cut and dry for the first couple of seasons of this format, with teams 5-8 already cut adrift, but i feel given time people may have a different view.
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Rank | Posts | Team |
Player Coach | 22777 | |
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May 2006 | 19 years | |
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| Quote: Biff Tannen "Like i said in an earlier post, there will be years when it will be far tighter between teams in the super 8's and people will be saying how great it is and we will have some great matches as sides slug it out to make the play off positions.It's a shame we have had it cut and dry for the first couple of seasons of this format, with teams 5-8 already cut adrift, but i feel given time people may have a different view.'"
It's simple maths that it will be rare for that to happen. There are relatively very few permutations of results that will create that situation. Not only that but because they only play each other those few permutations narrow massively every game of the super 8s.
It is a convoluted and competitively unfair system put in place to try and manufacture 'jeopardy' that will fail to do so except in relatively rare circumstances.
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International Star | 1704 | |
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Aug 2011 | 13 years | |
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| all team have 23 games up until the split into the 8's. If you are in the super 8's vying to make the top 4 but are 10+ points behind the leaders then the team only have themselves to blame...not the system.
If they had performed better in at least 5 of the games they lost they would be closer to the top, if you start again from scratch for the super 8's you then devalue the previous 23 games and it wont be long before teams who have made the 8's with games to spare would rest players and coast......
Not every team in a 12 team league can win the title....there will always be dead games in a league system whatever that may be....it's just making sure you are at the pointed end of the stick when the split comes
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