I'm in total agreement. Roby is far superior to any other English hooker. To dismiss him as 'just a scooter' is rubbish.
He's a machine, his work rate is phenomenal.

maybe you should watch both of them again, wigan spread the ball much quicker than saints and its a lot quicker out of the ruck and he's far more accurate than Roby, the amount of times Wilkin or Lomax have had to do a skip to get to a wayward pass is ridiculous. like i said scooting, kicking he's better, defense he's also very good but only down low i have never seem him hit a forward and stop all he's momentum yet. Creativity is required from Roby as he is a main playmaker for saints McIlorum isn't he just knows when to hit a forward or a back.

Hes fantastic against beaten packs but we wont dominate the aus pack and he won't be as effective.

at some time you will need to watch a game without your cherry and white specs on, Roby is in a completely different class to McIlorum, The only thing McIlorum has on Roby is size and aggression.

The only question mark I have ever had on Roby is the speed and accuracy of his pass from dummy half, compared with the slick operators from there (Cameron Smith being clearly the best), this lack of accuracy can really slow a team down. We can talk about defensive workload, aggression etc all day long but this key element of the dummy half play needs to be first class. Having said all of that, I still think Roby is the starting 9 for England

Yep, but Wigan fans will have none of it.

The reason we don't spread the ball quicker is because of the halves, or the ones pretending to be, for us this season. The problems you allude to is down to them.

I can't ever recall Wilkin or Lomax (not sure why Lomax will be getting the ball at first reciever, considering he is a FB...?) having to skip to get a pass away because of poor distribution. Making things up doesn't increase the strength of your argument.

P.S - sorry for derailing the thread. Although I suppose it is a relevant discussion to the starting 17 vs Aus.

Can't believe people aren't picking Ablett. He's without doubt our best all round back rower at the moment

For me, Ablett needs to be in one of the centres against Australia. Cudjoe and Watkins are both poor defensively and would be exploited. ablett has played enough at centre to know what he is doing on attack, and his defence is very good and realistically would be our best option to stop the powerhouse Aussie centres.

Agreed, in games against Hudds I can't say I have noticed Cudjoe do anything of great importance, but Ablett always seems to pull something out of the bag against us, I'd have him at left .

p.s, it kills me to admit that, as for some reason I really have taken a disliking to Ablett, he has the the most punchable face I've ever seen...

Tomkins

Charnley
Cudjoe
Watkins
Hall

Sinfield
Widdop

Graham
Roby
S. Burgess

Westwood
Farrell

O'Loughlin

G. Burgess
T. Burgess
Mossop
Burrow.

Tomkins
Charnley
Cudjoe
Watkins
Hall
Widdop
Chase
Mossop
Roby
Graham
Farrell
Burgess
Sinfield

McIlorum
Hill
G Burgess
Westwood

Tomkins
Charnley
Cudjoe
Watkins
Hall
Widdop
Sinfield
Graham
Roby
Hill
Westwood
S Burgess
O'Loughlin

G Burgess
Mossop
Hock
Chase

...and Saints fans will hear nowt against Roby.

Who'da thunkit.

I'd have McIlorum simply for the fact I want some mongrel against the Aussies. I don't care that Roby may be a technically 'better' hooker or can kick better - that's not his job -, and his scoot game has never been as effective against the Aussie defence. He's great at what he does, but that's not enough and has never been so far on the international stage.

What I want is a hooker who can distribute quickly and cleanly, who has perfected the art of drawing at least the first marker (which Micky has in the past 2 years), and who can really get under their skin and p*ss them off. Let's see Smith losing his cool, their props biting back and pushing & shoving at the ruck, and Gallen taking a massive hit off the little hooker he thought he could run over. A bit like Dermott used to.

Others have mentioned Ablett - I'm looking forward to seeing what he can do against the Aussies. He's become a massive danger player for Leeds, and also has that bit of nasty mongrel in him I like. If he targets Slater as keenly as he always targets Tomkins he'll do right by me.

A few have mentioned Ablett almost solely for his 'niggly' side. However he is a very good player and a serious contender IMO for left centre.
You want players that'll show up in big games and not hide. Well he's scored tries in the last 2 GF's, setting up another 2 in the 2012 win for which many thought he was unlucky not to be MOM. He scored crucial tries in the playoff wins vs Wire (2011) & Catalans (2012) both from grubbers through. Also scored in the 2011 CCF and 2012 WCC. All these with the exception of the WCC came from starting left centre.

Also going on form (which many cry out for) he's probably been Leeds' best player as we entered the final month of the season. Immense against Saints and helped create a great try for Moon against Wigan. And it's not just a 'because he's Leeds' thing as I believe Burrow shouldn't be in as I don't think his 'come off the bench against tiring forwards' thing will work vs the Aussies.