indeed, for some it is better to grow naturally, for others they need to be 'kick-started' and if someone else is putting up the money to do that, why on earth would we want to turn it down

Toulouse could have done well as the first French team in as there was the player pool at the time for one French team and it would have probably been the same players at either club, more or less. I doubt there'd have been quite as many supporters at Toulouse as at Catalans but it would have been viable. The biggest objection to Toulouse in SL now is that there aren't enough players in France for 2 SL standard clubs (even once you take into account 8-10 overseas players at each). If they drafted the best French players between Catalans and Toulouse you might be able to make things work, but at the moment Toulouse would only have the Catalans rejects who aren't good enough. It might have been better to bring in them both at once (as part of an expansion not a replacement), even if it would have meant them both being at the bottom now. But a SL club based on Catalans rejects is not good enough. If you have a better idea for where they can get SL standard players from can you tell me please?


Don't troll. The population of Perpignan is about 200,000 and there were 4 semi-pro clubs there. That sounds pretty heartland to me even if the crowds were only about 1000 at each.

I honestly don't for the life of me see where you got this 7 million figure for Perpignan from, but it shows you're not open to reason when trying to pretend Perpignan is an expansion area.


Maybe the FFR XIII need to look at that. Even if it is not my preferred method I would have no objection to them saying to Toulouse, 'you can be in SL in three years subject to meeting certain minimum criteria' as at least everyone would know where they stand and they'd have a target to aim for. Just making excuses for their shortfallings won't make them a viable SL club however much you wish it. Catalans didn't have three years, the vote to include them from 2006 was taken in mid-2004.

If we're going to have Toulouse as a credible SL club we need to look at what will prepare them for SL rather than chucking them in sink or swim and potentially killing off the game at a pro level in Toulouse as you're suggesting. Expansion below SL is still expansion regardless of whether you refuse to believe this or not. Them being in a different situation won't keep them out of trouble, so they can only enter when ready

I agree. But at the present moment, the system doesn't allow for it. That is the only objection I have for it. It would ruin any credibility the RFL has if they decide to wipe their rules out before the three years is up. If they want to change them after that is fine, but licenses were granted and denied on the basis that the next license window would follow a certain ruling. It could possibly even face legal scrutiny.



The formation of the NRFU (later the RFL) was mainly so they were allowed to pay their players, yes. But these clubs were amateur clubs before that. They had to be to play rugby under the RFU. When they set up the NRFU, they effectively became semi-pro. But the birth of the NRFU was not the birth of rugby league like many keep saying, it was simply an evolution. They were still playing pretty much the same rules as rugby union in the early days. They were still basically rugby union clubs. Basically, every club that is in the SL now that came from that first meeting were amateur clubs that progressed to be semi-pro clubs that have now progressed to be full time clubs. That would be: Bradford, Huddersfield, Hull FC, Leeds, St Helens, Wakefield, Warrington and Wigan.
Others that have made it amateur-semi-full and back to semi: Halifax, Leigh, Oldham, Widnes.
Others that are in SL now after joining the NRFU before the major changes that seperated the two codes in 1906 were brought in: Hull KR and Salford.

Not that any of this matters to what would happen to present date. But it dispels the myth that is what you are saying about no amateur club making it to SL or no semi-pro club making it to amateur. Most clubs that have been in SL were amateur at some point.

your idea of heartland is somewhere that comprises :

1. new club
2. an area where RL was banned for a number of years ie it was illegal to play
3. where the clubs had all their assets stolen
4. game was plundered beyond recognition and never recovered.

wigan and leeds were in such financial difficulties they had to be sold to new owners or wouldve gone broke

why can heartland RL clubs, indeed the very best in english RL have financial problems which can be explained away, yet the same situations in a non heartland club is treated differently.

until you treat both clubs evenly and fairly then ill just keep pointing out the hypocrisy of your position

clubs fail all the time, it doesnt mean we shouldnt try again

well if toulose are a heartland club and also offer potential for massive expansion of RL as well, that puts them ahead of all the traditional heartland clubs in england which offer no expansion

how much bigger can leigh, halifax or barrow get? how much more can they add to the growth of RL as a sport?

toulose can grow much much more, and will strengthen international RL and help revive RL in france

toulose anyday then

Who are you actually arguing about Toulouse with ?

Paris on the other hand

im not here to spoon food people who dont follow the argument

go back 3 pages and start again

both.

wakey out, widnes in.

2 new french SL clubs being toulose and paris with paris being fully paid for by external parties.

if the paris thing falls over im not that fussed, toulose is the next french SL club for me.

but if someone else is prepared to pay us to expand the sport, my attitude is, welcome, wheres your cheque

I do know you pillock , but the relevance of something that happened over 60 years ago that we had no control over to expansion of RL teams now I just doont see , I would imagine that people had other things on their mind at the time

i dont care what other people had on their minds, it on my mind

the point was made that Les Cats are a heartland club

my response was no because :

1. they are a new club from a merger
2. RL stopped being played in the area for a long time as it was banned and the impact of that banning stopped its growth thereafter

the rapid success of Les Catalans in RL shows that expansion in SL to france will be much more beneficial than scotland, ireland or even new areas in england like gateshead, the midlands or more london clubs

dont look a gift horse in the mouth

you arent big enough of a sport to ignore these kinds of clubs, nor is the sport itself big enough internationally to try not to make france strong again

within 10 years france could easily be a very strong test nation backed by at least 2 strong pro SL clubs