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FORUMS > The Virtual Terrace > GAME ON: Toulouse Olympique v Toronto Wolfpack. Sat 14:30:00
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Quote: Him "They had no homegrown players whatsoever in their team. Neither did Toronto. Yet only Toronto are criticised for it.'"

I see what your doing here, but worrying about Batleys lack of home grown players shouldn't stop you focusing on your own club's problems icon_sad.gif

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Quote: little wayne69 "I see what your doing here, but worrying about Batleys lack of home grown players shouldn't stop you focusing on your own club's problems My own clubs problems will get sorted, our fans just need to learn a bit of patience and to accept we can’t win every year.

I get frustrated however at the bitterness often shown toward any non-heartland club in RL. The “there shouldn’t be any foreign clubs”, “they’re taking heartland clubs money”, “the RFL are helping them at the expense of heartland clubs” arguments are rife and consistent and then the delight and glee on display when they lose. These are often the same people who wonder why there aren’t more people with big money in RL backing clubs.

Wrencat in his latest post puts some reasonable concerns about when Toronto will be able to develop homegrown players. It will be some time. Yes they could have played 1 or 2 in League 1. That wouldn’t suddenly have turned them into Championship standard players and then another year or 2 in the Championship wouldn’t have turned them into SL standard players. They need to setup local roots as he rightly says. Well that takes a lot longer than 3 years and certainly takes longer than that to produce any quality players from it. However Batley have had 100+ years to do that and aren’t producing any at the moment. Someone said there are some Batley products playing in SL, I’m struggling to think of any.
This isn’t an anti-Batley post or criticism. Well not solely them. They are the same as the vast majority of British clubs below SL. Some people sometimes ask what benefits clubs like Toronto bring over British clubs. But I look at many British clubs and see these zombie clubs producing very little, sometimes nothing, for the sport and just staggering on from year to year.

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Quote: Him "My own clubs problems will get sorted, our fans just need to learn a bit of patience and to accept we can’t win every year.

I get frustrated however at the bitterness often shown toward any non-heartland club in RL. The “there shouldn’t be any foreign clubs”, “they’re taking heartland clubs money”, “the RFL are helping them at the expense of heartland clubs” arguments are rife and consistent and then the delight and glee on display when they lose. These are often the same people who wonder why there aren’t more people with big money in RL backing clubs.

Wrencat in his latest post puts some reasonable concerns about when Toronto will be able to develop homegrown players. It will be some time. Yes they could have played 1 or 2 in League 1. That wouldn’t suddenly have turned them into Championship standard players and then another year or 2 in the Championship wouldn’t have turned them into SL standard players. They need to setup local roots as he rightly says. Well that takes a lot longer than 3 years and certainly takes longer than that to produce any quality players from it. However Batley have had 100+ years to do that and aren’t producing any at the moment. Someone said there are some Batley products playing in SL, I’m struggling to think of any.
This isn’t an anti-Batley post or criticism. Well not solely them. They are the same as the vast majority of British clubs below SL. Some people sometimes ask what benefits clubs like Toronto bring over British clubs. But I look at many British clubs and see these zombie clubs producing very little, sometimes nothing, for the sport and just staggering on from year to year.'"


I thought that you would be familiar with Walmsley (he's at Saints icon_eek.gif ) and Keegan Hirst (at Trinity) and they're just from the top of my head and of course any top players that they do develop would move on to SL clubs etc.
The point is that new clubs, dropped in to new non RL playing territories and without a network of junior rugby are 100% reliant on the rest of the RL world to provide their players and whilst it's admirable that a group of very wealthy investors want a RL side in their city, the questions over the long term future of the game in these places is massively worrying and its absolutely essential that there is some structure underneath.
It's like having the bowl full of cherries but no cake underneath and it needs both.

Aside from that the logistics with travel and climate make it impossible for clubs to play a balanced fixture program and again, this is not a one off (as it would be if there were ground improvements, it's always.
Dont get me wrong, it's great to be taking their home games on the road but, the cost for them, especially in the long term, makes this venture even more financially risky.
OK they will very likely get their hands on a slice of the SL TV cash but, while ever they exist, it just wont be enough and will necessitate huge subsidy .
Interestingly, if there were another 3/4 clubs over there, the level of subsidy would reduce but, at what cost to the domestic game in the UK.
Toulouse are the polar opposite.
They are in a RL heartland, with junior development etc although they would be battling with Catalan for the signatures of any up and coming French youngsters.

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Quote: Him "They had no homegrown players whatsoever in their team. Neither did Toronto. Yet only Toronto are criticised for it.'"


Sam Wood was born in Dewsbury so they had at least one ! icon_biggrin.gif

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Quote: wrencat1873 "I thought that you would be familiar with Walmsley (he's at Saints Hirst was signed by Batley elsewhere and Walmsley played about half a season for Batley if I remember having joined from his uni side. I hardly think we can call that player development.

You are never ever going to get a network of amateur clubs spring up in places like North America without a pro club to provide the impetus. It’s never going to happen. We have to do it the other way around as soccer has done. But it’s daft to suggest that after 2.5 years a club would have a fully functioning player production system. If in 10 years time we’re still seeing no progress then yes it’s an issue. But not now. Right now the issue is why are established heartland clubs providing no players, fans or sponsors to the sport. Whatever failures Toronto have at the moment pale into insignificance compared to the massive, crippling failures that are our heartland clubs.

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[b:1crbsr9w] Toulouse for Championship in 2017, Super League in 2021! Avignon for Championship in 2021, Super League in 2022! [/b:1crbsr9w]:d7dc4b20b2c2dd7b76ac6eac29d5604e_18302.png



Here are the highlights of Toulouse's 46-16 defeat of Toronto, in front of over 6,000 French fans. (Pity that the cameraman missed the actual scoring of the first of Stanislas Robin's two tries):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_cont ... 6XiVvcJOSM
Here are the highlights of Toulouse's 46-16 defeat of Toronto, in front of over 6,000 French fans. (Pity that the cameraman missed the actual scoring of the first of Stanislas Robin's two tries):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_cont ... 6XiVvcJOSM


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Quote: JEAN CAPDOUZE "Here are the highlights of Toulouse's 46-16 defeat of Toronto, in front of over 6,000 French fans. (Pity that the cameraman missed the actual scoring of the first of Stanislas Robin's two tries):


Have you got the highlights of Catalans v Salford? I'm on mi holidays and havn't seen it yet. icon_thumb.gif

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Quote: Clearwing "Toronto's utterly joyless style will ensure Toulouse don't ship too many.'"


Finally someone has said it. Toronto stink the TV out weekly.Im sick of them already.

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Quote: Him "Hirst was signed by Batley elsewhere and Walmsley played about half a season for Batley if I remember having joined from his uni side. I hardly think we can call that player development.

You are never ever going to get a network of amateur clubs spring up in places like North America without a pro club to provide the impetus. It’s never going to happen. We have to do it the other way around as soccer has done. But it’s daft to suggest that after 2.5 years a club would have a fully functioning player production system. If in 10 years time we’re still seeing no progress then yes it’s an issue. But not now. Right now the issue is why are established heartland clubs providing no players, fans or sponsors to the sport. Whatever failures Toronto have at the moment pale into insignificance compared to the massive, crippling failures that are our heartland clubs.'"


It's a debatable point what constitutes "player development". Pretty much every player that joins a professional RL club will have spent time playing previously the game either at an amateur level, or perhaps in an educational establishment. The problem for clubs below SL is that they'll always find it difficult to keep hold of young stars in the making as there'll always be the lure of SL to tempt them away.

Some clubs run reserves, and others have academy teams, both of which can help develop players. However, a lot of players will move between a number of clubs before establishing themselves, and it's probably arguable which of those clubs did most to "develop" them.

Anyway, well done to TO for their win yesterday, as well as the support they managed to get into the ground to watch it. It wasn't played at their usual 4,000 capacity stadium - did make a special push for this one - well done regardless. The Championship looks like being a belter of a competition again this year, with 8 teams looking like they'll be battling for the top 5 spots at the moment.

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JESUS WEPT :WALL: HOW MANY TIMES????? £20 a ticket and £15 on beer and merchandise.....so an away fan is worth £35. At best, 1,000 is the average away support split across 11 rounds and I am being really generous here, so Toronto, replacing say Wakefield will cost a SL club £35,000. The minimum turnover of a SL club is £4,000,000 so Toronto instead of Widnes is worth less than 1% of a SL clubs turnover. There are many valid reasons for and against expansion into America, but "AWAY FANS" isn't one of them. :BEAT::d7dc4b20b2c2dd7b76ac6eac29d5604e_76030.jpg



Quote: JEAN CAPDOUZE "Here are the highlights of Toulouse's 46-16 defeat of Toronto, in front of over 6,000 French fans. (Pity that the cameraman missed the actual scoring of the first of Stanislas Robin's two tries)https://youtu.be/YYC67xCfyCQrl

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[b:1crbsr9w] Toulouse for Championship in 2017, Super League in 2021! Avignon for Championship in 2021, Super League in 2022! [/b:1crbsr9w]:d7dc4b20b2c2dd7b76ac6eac29d5604e_18302.png



Quote: Call Me God "HERE YOU GO BAZZA
rlhttps://youtu.be/YYC67xCfyCQrl'"


Wrong game. Wrong thread. This thread is about Toulouse's magnificent victory.

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Quote: JEAN CAPDOUZE "Wrong game. Wrong thread. This thread is about Toulouse's magnificent victory.'"


It was you that mentioned Salford first...

Quote: JEAN CAPDOUZE "Crowd 6103. Salford and Wakefield don't get close to that.'"


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The fans, the members, the people there.. from the day I stepped foot onto that field at the AJ Bell Stadium,I knew I would love that club for the rest of my life. "Jackson Hastings".. Worry a little bit every day and in a lifetime you will lose a couple of years. If something is wrong, fix it if you can. But train yourself not to worry. Worry never fixes anything. Mary Hemmingway, US journalist,widow of Ernest Hemmingway (1908-1986) The Stupid Neither Forgive Nor Forget The Naive Forgive And Forget The Wise Forgive But Don't Forget "I am not young enough to know everything" Oscar Wilde Irish Playwright (1854-1900) One likes people much better when they're battered down by a prodigious siege of misfortune than when they triumph. virginia woolf (1882-1941):icons1949_files/4193-180guyguyme2003-msnicons.gif



Quote: JEAN CAPDOUZE "Wrong game. Wrong thread. This thread is about Toulouse's magnificent victory against a woeful championship team in Toronto.'"


it was coming Bazza from a team that just scraped past Dewsbury which game did you go to Baz ? or were there no flights out of Kingsford Smith airport ?

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TWP scraped past Dewsbury, who Fax beat 26-0 yesterday (Fax finally got themselves out of 1st gear). Watched the highlights and TO looked very good in the second half. TWP play Batley next, followed by Fax, Sheffield, Barrow and Featherstone. 5 tough games and if they're still top of the pile after them they'll take some stopping.

TO's season will depend on how well they travel, particularly if they suffer injuries to key players.

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