You're right about it being horses for courses and that if you as a RL fan don't like NFL so be it. The problem we have at the moment is that more and more RL fans seem to be turning their backs on RL and this is at a time when our near rivals of RU damn nearly sell out Twickers for a league game.

Americans don't tend to have the same emotional attachments to sports clubs that we tend to have in Europe. NFL franchises are unashamedly business-driven - going to an NFL game for a lot of Americans is no different to going to the cinema or any other source of entertainment. Sports teams in the UK and Europe have historically been much more community-focused. The commercialisation of the Premier League for example is a relatively recent thing when compared to the NFL.

Fourth row of Upper tier above where Titans came out. I've been 5 times now and that was the best view easy. I think with NFL it's better to be higher as you can see more.

I've always sat lower tier before.

That is probably cheapest ticket I've bought for NFL so far but easily best view I've had.

I think that the RFL should incorporate some slots for its own advertising with the provider as part of the next TV deal, assuming that it'll be with a provider that has adverts. That would help with marketing our sport.

Seems to me existing RL fans are generally only interested in whats happening on the pitch, everything else is superfluous. I go to games 30 mins before ko then leave when it's finished, I wouldn't pay more for what the NFL offers on top of that (even if I was inclined to watch the dull as dishwater action) and I guess that's the issue. RL fans know the value of everything when it comes to RL but will quite happily be swayed by flashy lights for another sport. Partly the fault of the RFL for cheapening everything.

That's probably because that's the only market the clubs and the RFL really cater for. We originally had Bull/Cougar Mania, but our idea of any sort of "fan park" these days seems to be having that prick from Rugby AM shouting at people from the back of a trailor.



You might not be interested in that thing, but the fact that the NFL has sold more than 250,000 tickets for three events (and probably could have sold more), suggests that there is a market for that sort of thing.

Now if the clubs and RFL decide that those people are a market that they want, they need to find a way to cater to those demands and market a product that appeals to those people. If it isn't, then I'd be interested to see what markets they do want.

But it sort of links back to my point above about who this sport is talking and listening to. We already cater to the "I want to go to the game and go home" diehard crowd, but that clearly isn't enough. The clubs and the RFL cannot just keep listening to those people who do buy the product, and neglect the swathes of audiences out there who don't but could be tempted to part with their leisure dollar. The RFL and certain clubs in particular are at the point where they has been stuck on this treadmill of discounts for so long that, when it comes to asking for full price, we don't have any added value to offer - and that's reflected in ticket sales.

It doesn't even have to be that expensive. Just find the right formula for the right product at the right price point.

We do need to branch out, I was merely commenting the main focus for existing fans is generally what happens between 80 minutes rather than getting free plastic food or seeing some crap popstar. Granted to encourage others to come to games, the RFL need the flashy lights to get them there. That needs massive overhaul in attitude from the top down, not to mention tons of cash. I've seen the Hearns get lot of stick, but perhaps it will take someone outside of the sport to make it something non RL fans want to attend, and make RL fans want to attend without the discounts. I certainly don't have any faith in Rimmer doing that.

Do you have faith in your own club doing that? They have 14 home games in which they can reach new audiences in and around Wakefield. It doesn't have to be something from the top-down - the much (and rightly)-praised Peter Deakin didn't wait for it to come from Red Hall.

Trinity have sod all to put anything in place and Michael Carter has already said he does not see the point of marketing as it's a cost without a guarantee of a return (ever an accountant). Glover did create a bit of a buzz and interest did increase for a season or two but ultimately that was built on sand. We're not the best club to look for answers to the games wider issues.

I would like to see the club reach out, not just in Wakefield but the neighbouring Barnsley, we've got circa 200k people to go at.

And this is pretty much the issue right? I suspect Carter is not the only one with that view, but it is at the essence of why this game is declining in many key facets. Whilst Carter is in some ways right that marketing can be a cost if it isn't done properly, or if you confuse it with advertising, there is also an opportunity cost for not doing it, and it's up to him if he's happy to bear that.

But I think it's wrong of him or anyone else with that view to expect the RFL or anyone else to bear a risk that he isn't prepared to.

On this forum I called out the claim that he and others made about how the structure makes it "impossible" to sell tickets. My argument was that unless he has tried everything and this is the prevailing feedback, then he is simply deflecting blame by making that claim. The usual suspects scoffed at that idea, but if that his genuinely his view (which like I said, he's entitled to that view and to spend his club's money as he wishes), I think that remains a fair criticism to make.

The NFL teams are owned by business men that are ruthless. They have a business model that has to work or they will do something drastic. (Ok this is not a dig at Wakey just an example) but can you imagine any of the NFL owners putting up with the crap Wakefield have had over their proposed new ground. They would have simply up and moved the team. And here is the equally important part, owners can move their teams or make demands because councils over there appreciate the business generated by a successful sporting team.
The most comparative scenario we could have had in the UK would have been if Koukash as a successful and wealthy owner with a good team had moved to Bradford - bankrupt team with a large supporter base.

I think that's fair comment.

Even football in this country wouldn't put up with the crap that Trinity (and Cas) have suffered.
IIRC, some while ago Trinity were blocked by The RFL from seeking a move to Barnsley.

At some point Michael Carter & Co will lose patience with WMDC and either move or find something better to do with their time and money. It's criminal that progress cant be made because of an intransigent local authority.

Getting back on topic, The NFL are awash with cash and power and rugby league is the polar opposite.

Quote: rugbyreddog "The NFL teams are owned by business men that are ruthless. They have a business model that has to work or they will do something drastic. (Ok this is not a dig at Wakey just an example) but can you imagine any of the NFL owners putting up with the crap Wakefield have had over their proposed new ground. They would have simply up and moved the team. And here is the equally important part, owners can move their teams or make demands because councils over there appreciate the business generated by a successful sporting team. '" There was actually a story emerge last year about the RFL/SLE allowing clubs the right to relocate. https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2017/ ... -or-abroad I suspect that it was largely a PR exercise to try and give clubs some leverage over uncooperative local politicians (after all, what local councillor / MP wants to see the team's only professional sports team become "Coventry Trinity"?), but the option for clubs to do that is apparently there. On a related note, isn't Peter Box currently clinging onto Wakefield Council by his fingernails? Does removing him change the dynamic for either Wakefield or Castleford?

Quote: rugbyreddog "The NFL teams are owned by business men that are ruthless. They have a business model that has to work or they will do something drastic. (Ok this is not a dig at Wakey just an example) but can you imagine any of the NFL owners putting up with the crap Wakefield have had over their proposed new ground. They would have simply up and moved the team. And here is the equally important part, owners can move their teams or make demands because councils over there appreciate the business generated by a successful sporting team. '" There was actually a story emerge last year about the RFL/SLE allowing clubs the right to relocate. https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2017/ ... -or-abroad I suspect that it was largely a PR exercise to try and give clubs some leverage over uncooperative local politicians (after all, what local councillor / MP wants to see the team's only professional sports team become "Coventry Trinity"?), but the option for clubs to do that is apparently there. On a related note, isn't Peter Box currently clinging onto Wakefield Council by his fingernails? Does removing him change the dynamic for either Wakefield or Castleford?

American football doesn't happen very often in UK with 2 of the NFL's teams going head to head. If it happened on a regular basis, week in week out, then the novelty would ware off. That's why a one off game can be sold due to the novelty and scarce opportunity in the UK to witness.

Trying to improve our game to help to sell it has been well debated, and here's some things I'd like to see in the future.
1) Refs to cut out all the fannying around at the play the ball.
Once held is shouted players must release or be penalised. There's too many ocassions of the ref shouting held, and the ball carrier then knocked to the ground.
Hands must be removed from the ball carrier on the shout of held.
Ball carrier must play the ball backwards, with his foot.
2) Refs to cut out all the fannying around at the play the scrums.
Lets stop one team rushing to form a scrum to stop the clock and then disband, have a drink, tie shoelaces, check who's on I'm a Celebrity, attend to head wound, have another drink.
Put a clock on from when ref awards scrum to whichever side, and if a team is not packed down within 30 seconds (or whatever appropriate amount of time) then they're penalised.
Make scrums a proper contest again, and make everyone pack down properly. I know there was an attempt with scrum halves sent off for feeding, and then hookers for foot up, but this can't be impossible to solve.
3) Goal line drop outs, again taking a crazy amount of time for a drink, tie shoelaces, check who's on I'm a Celebrity, attend to head wound, have another drink. Get a clock on it, and if not done within the allotted time, then a penalty.
4) Next TV deal, get some advertising slots with the TV provider agreed for RFL use in marketing and selling the gane/events.
5) Substitutes - we need to increase the amount that forwards are on the field of play during a game to try and give some space for backs to be creative. Could keep 4 subs but cut down the interchanges to eight or six. Where getting too many games where players are on from nought to ten minutes. Bit ironic with the OP, but were not American Football.
6) Make SL a 14 team competition playing each other home and away once. Keep the magic weekend if you have to, but that might be better served as a weekender for the last 8 or last 16 of the challenge cup.
Whoever is top of the league is crowned champions.
7) Item 6) then gives space for mid season international/representative rugby and end of season international tournament.
Move the challenge cup final away from the August bank holiday and the rail travel nightmare of getting to London. Also, allow more time from the semifinals to the final for the opportunity to sell this game.
9) Sky need a shake up, the presentation is stale, and the dissection of every tackle for possible infringements is boring and not what we want to hear. Just describe the action, please, and leave it there.
Do we really need this large cast of Eddie, Terry, Barry, Jon, Brian, Angela, Phil, Bill and Stuart (I bet I haven't named them all, either)
10) Great to see a GB tour back on, hope the Aussies will come over here too. These need to feature in a cycle of one home and one away every two years.
There's other things I'm sure, and there's no doubt some better suggestions, but the bottom line is the game needs an overhaul.