The manner in which they scheduled England's final group game would suggest that perhaps they do.

We'll never see Sinfield again in our sport.

Andy Gilder seems altogether in thrall to rugby union from the posts I've seen on here - not just accepting its superior size and reach but actively thinking the IR(U)B are altogether ignorant of Rugby League and that the date and venue clash on the 10th of October was purely coincidental - no-one in Rugby Union believes that, let alone RL fans.

The problem Edwards, Robinson and Panface have is that they were born and bred into Rugby League, and we all assume they have the same view as so many true believers do - that yes it is sporting genius, but it needs our faith and our protection and our goodwill because there are still those out there who wish it ill. It remains at times a social movement, a badge of identity as much as it is a sport.

Rugby League is tied deep in the ideas of community, has strong links with the co-operative movement and has been very socialist at times. The idea of the importance of the individual taking primacy over that of the team or of the sport is one which it shies away from. For Farrell or Ford to come back to RL and lure away some of its best players, for them to actively to put themselves and their careers away from Rugby League ahead of the greater interests of the sport and the communities that made them, that is what hurts. They are not acting in the protective way we assume all Rugby League people would do.

Spot on.

I doubt that, actually. But we'll see.

If Sinfield fancies sports admin rather than coaching (and who can blame him TBH) then perhaps Hetherington's successor at Leeds might be the aim down the track?

I remember Shaun Edwards playing for Bradford that one season; one of the games he proper spat the dummy at half time and sat outside when everyone else went into the sheds.

Never felt right cheering for him to be honest; it was like unclogging a blocked toilet, you know you had to do it, but felt a bit dirty afterward,

So they went to Union, like a load of others did - and for a host of reasons, personal and professional. They were still class players - something we should be proud of as league people.

I'm league to the core but have loads of 'union mates' because of where I now live. Many of them get up at 7am to watch NRL or, as happened last week, phone me about getting tickets to this NZ test series. They love their league as much as you or I - and they'll often ask, why is it not bigger? Why do so called 'proper' league fans so often come across as negative? Why can't I watch and enjoy both?

Sooner we get our heads out of our old way of thinkin - call it a chip on the shoulder, ignorance, whatever you want - the sooner we'll see our game take off with these people we seem to detest so much.

We (RL people) are the best thing about our sport. We're often (some of us) also the worst. I mean, what's attractive about a sport that consistently talks itself down and bitches and moans about how hard done to we are. We play right into the hands of that minority of tw@ 'old boy' RU fans FFS! And we're turning off a new generation of kids who frankly don't give two plops about 1895, class politics etc. Bout time we grew up and got on with it but I think it's a generational thing

I agree we too often talk ourselves down. But that's nothing to do with its limited media profile. It's location is.

The media, the authorities, the major companies in this country don't give a toss about anything north of Watford. We have our faults and we don't help ourselves but you could transfer the same people running Union into League, give them the same budget and we still wouldn't do that much better.

Agree with that last bit 100% and there's some truth (obviously) in the first bit. My point is; has 30, 40, 50 years of bleating about it done anything to change things for the better?

Old media is exactly that. Old! The 18-25 year olds of today who just want to see good sport don't get their opinions from the Telegraph or the Mail. Sure, some do. But if the media - as one example - is such a hurdle to us reaching these people, let's find another way. Let's at least stop boxing ourselves in when that's our biggest gripe about what the establishment is doing to us.

Don't expect everyone to see sense in what I'm saying. It's a complete mind-shift from where we've been put (and/or put ourselves) for too long. But we can choose to do something about it, or not.

Yes - in thrall. That must be it. The only reasonable explanation.

Not that I've formed an independent opinion based on over 40 years of life experience of involvement in both sports at various levels, which just doesn't happen to agree with your paranoid "they're out to get us" ramblings.

As a St. Helens fan I hated them all when they played for Wigan, but I recognise their achievements in terms of winning medals.

Since they've left RL, I'm jealous of Edwards, specifically his ability to persuade Heather Small to sleep with him; I've no opinion on Robinson; but for some reason every time I see Farrell's face I still want to punch it (or at least hide behind Scully whilst he punches it).

Recently saw Faz stood on one our local high street one morning in the early stages of the RUWC dressed in his England RU top. Looked like he was waiting for someone to pick him up and give him a lift to Twickers.

he wasn't going anywhere. They were having a seniors match and he'd been picked on the wing ...

Wonder when his England RU top will be on e-bay? He won't ever wear it in anger again.