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“You are playing a game of football this afternoon but more than that you are playing for England, and more even than that, you are playing for right versus wrong. You will win because you have to win. Don’t forget that message from home. England expects every one of you to do his duty.”:1230.gif



Quote: headhunter "Which 'failing clubs' haven't been relegated, that would have been relegated under a system of automatic P&R?'"


Quote: headhunter "Location

Troll detected

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[quote="King Street Cat":1wa9s43t]Some might look at this as being harsh but I think it's fair. When are the Rugby League going to stop persisting with this fantasy expansion. If it hasn't worked by now, it never will! I'm all for reaching out to a wider audience with our game but not at the expense of historical clubs in the homelands.[/quote:1wa9s43t]:d7dc4b20b2c2dd7b76ac6eac29d5604e_6731.jpg



Quote: Hopie "Troll detected'"
Celtic Crusaders finished bottom in 2009 but made the play-offs the next season, as did Castleford in 2008 and Catalans in 2010. That doesn't exactly fit with your argument.

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Quote: Mr Hicks "Egg on the face of rugby league chiefs
Fev v Cas a classic example why teams from the championship should be aloud into super league.
Nothing between bottom of super league and top championship clubs, and if given the money super league clubs recieve who knows what they could acheive.'"


Not really, look at the attendance today. Fev's biggest game for years and not enough there to fund anything other than a sneaky win against us at Belle Vue.

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Quote: headhunter "The thread title is not correct at all. Championship teams should not be in Super League. Super League teams should be in Super League. Not all the clubs currently in Super League are Super League clubs, but that doesn't mean we should be letting more sub-standard clubs in.'"


Spot on!! Absolutely spot on.

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Quote: Hopie "The current system has no stick, failing clubs aren't relegated. They are guaranteed a place as they would go bust without super league money, some of them manage it with the money!'"

Simply not true. One 'failing' club would have been relegated in this round of franchises if Crusaders hadn't imploded.

Him
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Quote: Hopie "
The current system has no stick, failing clubs aren't relegated. They are guaranteed a place as they would go bust without super league money, some of them manage it with the money!'"

The current system has been in place for 3 years. Which clubs currently in Super League should have been relegated? Why? Replaced by which clubs and why?

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There are a number of clubs trying their hardest to meet Super League criteria in the Championship.

A lot on here seem threatened by clubs showing ambition, which is a sad state, if you meet Super League criteria, you should be in, no replacing.

(Yes I know the pitfalls)

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Quote: Mr Hicks "Egg on the face of rugby league chiefs
Fev v Cas a classic example why teams from the championship should be aloud into super league.
Nothing between bottom of super league and top championship clubs, and if given the money super league clubs recieve who knows what they could acheive.'"


When you can spell allowed you may be listened to...

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[quote="King Monkey":30st820n]Maybe a spell in prison would do Graham good. At least he'd lose his virginity.[/quote:30st820n]:d7dc4b20b2c2dd7b76ac6eac29d5604e_18919.jpg



Taking nothing away from Fev but Cas are 5hite. REALLY 5hite.

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[b:112mouem][color=#0000FF:112mouem][size=100:112mouem] "Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid."― Albert Einstein[/size:112mouem] [/color:112mouem][/b:112mouem] [b:112mouem][color=#0000FF:112mouem][size=100:112mouem] "Everybody gets so much information all day long that they lose their common sense." ― Gertrude Stein[/size:112mouem][/color:112mouem][/b:112mouem] [b:112mouem][color=#0000FF:112mouem][size=100:112mouem] "Don't believe everything you read on the internet" ― Abraham Lincoln [/size:112mouem][/color:112mouem][/b:112mouem]:13050.gif



Cas really are becoming the Championship teams whipping boys arnt they? First Fax take them to Golden point, then Barrow go and beat them, now Fev.......

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ALL GAVE SOME.. SOME GAVE ALL... Blue noses are born, Not manufactured. We do not choose, We are the chosen. Those who don't understand, Don't matter. Those who understand, Need no explanation .. W.A T.P RANGERS will rise again winner of the Wakefield Trinity challenge cup tipping comp 2012....YNBTG:3604.gif



some fans want promotion/ relegation brought back.. its a good thing in soccer as most teams are full time pro teams and no salary cap. in rl a team gets relegated and loses most of the team due to lower salary cap and therefore kills the team...keep a bigger salary cap in lowr leagues and the teams struggle financially?...in the light of day its a tough call

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I can't see the shock here, Championship winners beat an erratic SL side?
It should be a reminder though, SL isn't forging ahead and taking over the Galaxy quite yet.

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Not too concerned because I think there will be S/L 1 and S/L 2 in a few years time Super league in a mess now and the RFL will have to change things around the big clubs will vote it in because they end up with even more sky money if there is less clubs in the top flight and if clubs like Cas Wakey Salford etc are playing clubs like Fev Halifax Leigh etc in S/L 2 this will also becomes very entertaining league

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“You are playing a game of football this afternoon but more than that you are playing for England, and more even than that, you are playing for right versus wrong. You will win because you have to win. Don’t forget that message from home. England expects every one of you to do his duty.”:1230.gif



Quote: Kosh "Simply not true. One 'failing' club would have been relegated in this round of franchises if Crusaders hadn't imploded.'"


That is somewhat speculative but only one could have been removed, what about the others? wasn't the franchising system and licensing process supposed to prevent failing clubs being in Super League? what does it do if it doesn't do that?

Quote: Kosh "The current system has been in place for 3 years. Which clubs currently in Super League should have been relegated? Why? Replaced by which clubs and why?'"


Less than 4 years, two complete licensing processes and another license issued mid process. Yet four clubs have hit a financial crisis. If the new system hasn't changed things for the better what is the justification for the change? how many clubs went to the wall in the preceding four seasons?

Changing the system means it's impossible to know what would have happened under the old system. With no relegation or promotion results are less important and no doubt the last three years would have been different. The team going up and down would have been decided on the pitch (and minimum criteria being met).

The new system led to a ridiculous expansion of the league and the play-offs and a devaluing of the game on the field, it hasn't solved more problems than it's added and should never have been brought in. Time to give up on a failed experiment. I hope that 2015 will see a real shake up in the structure of the game as a whole.

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//www.pngnrlbid.com [quote="bUsTiNyAbALLs":9q9d2t35]Do not converse with me you filthy minded deviant.[/quote:9q9d2t35] [quote="vastman":9q9d2t35]My rage isn't impotent luv, I'm frothing at the mouth actually.[/quote:9q9d2t35]:



Quote: Hopie "That is somewhat speculative but only one could have been removed, what about the others? wasn't the franchising system and licensing process supposed to prevent failing clubs being in Super League? what does it do if it doesn't do that?'"
P+R wouldnt get rid of them either. Franchising isnt supposed to stop clubs failing, no system ever will do that, what it is supposed to do is give clubs the space to grow and improve, to re-prioritise so that clubs can concentrate on something other at the start of every season than looking to sign as many cheap Aussie Journeymen as they can, neglecting facilities, youth development, and commercial growth, just to avoid relegation and the intrinsic damage that causes.

Quote: Hopie "Less than 4 years, two complete licensing processes and another license issued mid process. Yet four clubs have hit a financial crisis. If the new system hasn't changed things for the better what is the justification for the change? how many clubs went to the wall in the preceding four seasons?'"
The Status quo doesnt need to not justify itself simply because 'thats how it is' a change needs to justify itself only as much as the status quo does. And London, Widnes, and Halifax all had severe financial issues in the four years prior to franchising, in a lot kinder financial climate.

Quote: Hopie "Changing the system means it's impossible to know what would have happened under the old system. With no relegation or promotion results are less important and no doubt the last three years would have been different. The team going up and down would have been decided on the pitch (and minimum criteria being met).

The new system led to a ridiculous expansion of the league and the play-offs and a devaluing of the game on the field, it hasn't solved more problems than it's added and should never have been brought in. Time to give up on a failed experiment. I hope that 2015 will see a real shake up in the structure of the game as a whole.'"

The clubs voted for an expansion of the league, twice, once in 2008 (before franchising was implemented) and again in 2010 (before the 2nd round of franchising) the size of the league is separate from the franchising process. If the clubs think that 14 is too many, they are able to vote for a reduction before the next round of franchises.

But lets look at the success of franchises if we are pointing out the negatives,
[listwe have more young british players and fewer overseas players (though not enough and too many respectively) playing than we did under P+R
we have seen Crusaders, Les Catalans and Castleford be given the space to improve from bottom one year, to top 8 the next (something which literally couldnt happen under P+R),
We have seen St Helens and Salford move from two dilapidated grounds which were massive drains on the clubs, to two brand new, top class facilities
We have seen work start at Craven Park to improve another dilapidated facility as well as Belle Vue
[/list
Not bad for 4 years, i dont really know what you were expecting.

And as for the promotion being based on winning a GF and minimum criteria being met, then that would simply be pointless as no club outside SL is near to meeting what the 'minimum criteria' would need to be. Some even in SL arent near to where the minimum criteria need to be.

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