i actually laughed when LMS did that, good on him, serves them right interviewing an emotional pumped up bloke minutes after experiencing winning a big final for the first time.

did i hear stevo say at one point that wigan were hampered by mcilorum not playing and that it would have made a big difference, nothing like taking away from saints' efforts is there?

And what if Saints had been at full strength?

Wigan - worst Grand Finalists ever? couldn't even beat a team playing with no recognised halves for 77 minutes.

Flower has been our best prop all year. He's taken down and run through plenty of big men, he was a big loss for us, especially as you say with your big men coming at us.

IMO, a bigger loss than Hohaia, who've I've always seen as error prone both in attack and defence, and I've seen slated to this effect on the Saints board by Saints fans many times. If anything Saints are a steadier and more consistent side without him. Walsh, on the other hand, has been a big loss for you all year.

And I didn't say you were 'poor', but that I can't think of a poorer team to win the Grand Final. Clearly, still a strong side and a tough defence to break down, especially with 12 men. However, if you can name me a worse 'Champion' side, I'll retract.

Hohaia's not great, but he's all we had left and has contributed greatly this year when we've needed him.

Flower wouldn't have made a difference against the Saints tonight. It went the same way a many "ugly" games this year that we've won. On those occasions Saints turn up with the right resolve and the big men do the rest. That's why we took home the LLS too, beating all the big teams on the way.
Top of the league and GF winners. If we're not worthy, someone should really have stopped us somewhere along the way.

Saints - No Wilkin, No Hohia, No Lomax, No Walsh and apparently no chance.

Wigin - No trophy!!

the most one sided final in the modern era it was going to be- very disappointed that it wasn't

Well, our pack took you to the cleaners back in April. But let's go back to the basic difference tonight: 13 vs 12.

Halfbacks, props, whatever, you scraped home despite us being down to 12 but still the stronger team for long periods. The only difference in the end was you always had that extra man in defence which made it hugely difficult to penetrate - and still we came close. 78 minutes vs 12 men and a weakened pack? Of course you should win.

I've no problem with you winning it, your boys done good. Just.

No it's not. It's like saying the only difference in the end was Saints always had that extra man in defence which made it hugely difficult to penetrate.

Which is exactly what I said.

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Don't be daft. There is no way Saints would have won that game if Flower hadn't been sent off...

Why not? Wigan couldn't score against Saints in the last league game either. Clearly struggle to break down Saints superior defending.

Tonight Saints had the snake by the jaw from behind. It could no longer bite us. We starved it until it died. But we could have sliced and diced it had we needed to, but why risk being bitten when you are in complete control?

Haha. So very true. The real Grand Final between the best two sides this year was last week.

Still, a pyrric victory for the great unwashed will suit them nicely.