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| Quote: oxford-pie-eater "Misguided whim? I'm saying whether he qualifies or not, and it's great to have Rangi in SL, I'd rather see a kid from our development system - the one we're supposedly building and spending money on - get the chance at the highest level. What's wrong with that?
The argument that they're not good enough just doesn't stand up. How will they ever be good enough. For me, this isn't about Chase, or any other single player. It's about the shift away from what, for me, is the whole purpose of having top flight international sport. Otherwise, don't we get better in the short term, and risk getting much worse in the longer term?'"
It is a misguided whim, because what you want international sport to be does not match the reality.
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| Did I miss the 24 pages of outrage last year when Willie Manu was called into the England train-on squad for the 2010 four nations? Perhaps my memory is slipping ...
And to reiterate the point Gilder made – we don't have to worry about where we draw the line, it's already been drawn. And it's clear.
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| Quote: FearTheVee "The difference is Oz/NZ don't need to pack their teams with overseas players to compete. We do, which is why it's such a dangerous situation to be in. I don't want to watch an England team made up of the likes of Matt King, Rangi Chase, Michael Monaghan and the dozens of other players we may choose to bring in after three years of living in England.
Of course, that is before I point out that Petero moved to Australia before his first birthday and played all his RL there. Not a great comparison with Chase who has been here barely three years.
Webb, on the other hand, is a very good example and is in a similar position to Chase, but at least he played his first pro RL in NZ.
The issue for me is that as such an underperforming nation, there will be the temptation to bring in Chase this year, someone else next year and before we know it half the side will not be "English". Yes, they may be eligible, but they will have no connection to the country other than having worked here for three years - either because they weren't good enough to play at home or they were offered more money to play in a second tier competition and came for the cash.'"
This post is pure alarmism. We have too many good players, born in England, to end up with a squad half full of foreign born players. We just lack strength in depth in certain areas.
How would Scotland, Ireland and Wales do, without the ability to recruit non-nationals?
We'd barely have an international scene at all if we followed the ridiculous puritan obsession of some on here.
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| Quote: tb "Did I miss the 24 pages of outrage last year when Willie Manu was called into the England train-on squad for the 2010 four nations? Perhaps my memory is slipping ...
And to reiterate the point Gilder made – we don't have to worry about where we draw the line, it's already been drawn. And it's clear.'"
You're missing the point.
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| Quote: Pepe "We'd barely have an international scene at all if we followed the ridiculous puritan obsession of some on here.'"
But that's the reality of it, you're right we barely have an international scene!
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| Quote: flatcap "But that's the reality of it, you're right we barely have an international scene!'"
And you'd like to make it even weaker?
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| So glad I couldn't give a toss either way on this one
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| Quote: Starbug "So glad I couldn't give a toss either way on this one
I frankly find that hard to believe.
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| Quote: Chris Dalton "I frankly find that hard to believe.'"
Nowt do wi me
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| Quote: Pepe "And you'd like to make it even weaker?'"
Nobody gives a sh*t about RL in Scotland anyway, why pretend they've got a team?
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| Quote: flatcap "But it's a possibility, one that you conveniently choose to ignore. Having Rangi in the squad doesn't really alter my support for the team that much, but having a team full of non-English players, who have developed their game outside of England would. Where/how do you draw the line?
It's not the even fact that there are non-English players playing for England that bothers me. Supporting England is much more than that - proving to the world that English RL is capable of producing the best players in the world, seeing juniors progress through the clubs/system and represent their country against the best, proving to Aus/NZ that we are a great RL playing country. Signing any player from the NRL who we can bend the rules for goes against all that, it kind of feels like cheating. Yeah we won the 4N, but with a load of NRL rejects, great!
This isn't a Rangi bash, I'm just not keen on this new approach that we seem to be taking - England are crap at RL so lets scour the NRL for any players who might be available (Reed, Heighington, Johnson now Rangi). We might as well give up playing RL anywhere else and have world cup of NRL teams.'"
But, I'm not ignoring it, I'm pointing out that there are far more factors that will effect the make up of the squad. Yes, the England coach has the ability to pick an all ANZAC squad if he wanted, that does make it is possible, but that doesn't mean it is ever likely to happen.
England isn't Ireland or Scotland or one of the other minnow nations who rely largely on English players. We have a lot of very good talent in this country already and we can build a good squad with this talent. We also have a large and very fickle paying support, which needs to be appeased.
The coach's main role is to pick the strongest side available to him, which he is doing. It is also his role to introduce the best possible competition for places in the squad and starting 17, which he is doing. And, it is role to demostrate some diplomacy in how he picks the squad, which he is doing because he hasn't gone for a full ANZAC squad.
The line you talk of is drawn by the coach, his team and in consultation with the RFL to strike the right balance of a range of factors that include their roles to produce a competitive and strong squad, putting together a squad that people want to watch etc.
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| Quote: Chorlton RL "The line you talk of is drawn by the coach, his team and in consultation with the RFL to strike the right balance of a range of factors that include their roles to produce a competitive and strong squad, putting together a squad that people want to watch etc.'"
And IMO he's close to stepping over that line trying to tap up NRL players (and Rangi Chase to a lesser extent). I think the fact that so many people have a similar opinion proves the point.
Anyway, we'll probably have to agree to disagree on this one!
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| Quote: flatcap "And IMO he's close to stepping over that line trying to tap up NRL players (and Rangi Chase to a lesser extent). I think the fact that so many people have a similar opinion proves the point.
Anyway, we'll probably have to agree to disagree on this one!
Of course, I never expected you to see sense anyway
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| Quote: flatcap "Nobody gives a sh*t about RL in Scotland anyway, why pretend they've got a team?'"
Ah well, let's not bother then. Let's just keep our game rooted entirely within the north of England. Sod international RL, and the money that can come from TV companies for it, so that some deluded fans can see their puritanical fantasy, of what international sport is meant to be, intact.
My view is that that we must make an effort and we have to start somewhere. I guess that is just far too unreasonable for some people to accept.
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| Quote: flatcap "And IMO he's close to stepping over that line trying to tap up NRL players (and Rangi Chase to a lesser extent). I think the fact that so many people have a similar opinion proves the point.
Anyway, we'll probably have to agree to disagree on this one!
He has tapped NRL players - Widdop and Reid - but you don't seem to have a problem with those two?
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