Yeh, it was great. Penrith are relentless. Welsby's distance kicking is crap.

No-one is suggesting Sneyd is anywhere comparable to Welsby as a player. The discussion is whether England would be better with Welsby at FB, than with Tomkins. I don't watch a deal of NRL but from what I see a number of their HBs aren't flash. But they do control the game.

If you suggest Welsby plays fullback who will play half back knowing Sneyd is not quite good enough.

Sneyd will be good enough in the halves on Saturday but, there needs to be progress from te game v France when, despite some good moments, England were bang average.
If they defend as they did in that game after the group stages, it will be a swift end to our WC journey.
Much of the euphoria from game 1 was undone in an instant.

Welsby doesn't have a long kicking game but, he does read the game ridiculously well.

Yesterday was such a missed opportunity, England played without discipline, especially in the first half. Forcing passes and kicking too early in the count when it added nothing, it should have been a great opportunity to practice attacking moves and let "2nd choice" players show their worth.

With the lack of enthusiasm and discipline these last two games I really have to question the coaching. What was the plan for the games? How have we benefitted from these group matches?

I reckon he already knows who will be picked for knockout games despite form or performances, Ryan Hall looked like a player who had been told he won't play again barring injuries, despite him being exactly the sort of winger we need in the big games. Really think we should have played Welsby for 80 at fullback, I've seen Tomkins fail enough times at international level to expect it to happen again...

Really concerned our pack looks a bit weak too to be honest.

I agree. Welsby should have been at FB. Just to have him at FB in the system because if Tomkins goes down. Surely Welsby is next in line for FB?

Can we talk about Hill. He's a workaholic grafter to be admired at club level, like Andy Lynch and many other relentless machines over the years. His hand will always be up to take the ball in. So I admire and respect the bloke, but is being a hard worker enough to play for your country? Persuade me.

A bit like my comments about Sneyd - Aussies seem to have plenty of workmanlike front rowers who just do a job. I would have gone for Oledzki pre-tournament, as potentially more destructive, but have not been overly impressed so far. Matty Lees also disappointed for me. So probably would stick with Hill.

I thought Hill was lucky to be in the squad at the last world cup, the coach didn't really change the squad much from one season to the next, and Hill felt like he had passed his peak.

To see him still rated as one of the best props in the game is a pretty sad state of affairs, showing that either players haven't developed in the last 5 years to be better than him, or that the coach is not looking in the right places.

If Walmsley was fit, who would be dropped from the squad? Cooper or Hill? I doubt any on here wouldn’t have taken Lees, Oledski, Burgess, Thompson or Knowles.

Hill is decent at club level. But like people have said. Workmanlike isn’t good enough in this game anymore, especially with the pace of the rucks and the six agains. He hasn’t got the leg speed or the metres after contact anymore.

To be fair to Hill, he has performed better than others in the squad in the 3 (+1 warmup) games

Well, that hasn't cheered me up, I was just starting to get over Saturday.

Would any England player get in the Aussie or Kiwi teams?

I don’t think so.

What about Samoa or Tonga,

I doubt that too.

Not a very helpful post, I know.

But I think it reflects the current situation.

English Rugby League is in a poor state in my view.

Problem is, no one wants to take responsibility.

The issue here is that England built their self belief on playing nobody. Greece, France and a poor (at that time) Samoa. When finally they come up against a team of worth it just wasn't there.

We beat PNG convincingly which was the opposite to the result when GB last played them.