Why should a manufactured concept be introduced to please clubs who haven't been able to keep up with the top end clubs? If it was a first past the post system then teams like Widnes and Wakey would still have nothing to play for.

You have to earn the right to have a chance of playing in semi final not be given it.

The only competition where every game matters for every team is a knock out like the challenge cup. The league can be restructured however you want but towards the end of the season there will always be teams with nothing to play for. Putting the points to zero after 23 rounds will mean the last 10 games or so will be dead rubbers for,those at the top.

I quite like the system though I consider the 'super 8's' to be the start of the play off's. In reality do we want a team who finished 2/3rds of the way down the league to become champions?

After a promising start Widnes then lost 12 out of 15 games. Their fault they aren't in with a shout, not the system.

Last year you felt Hull approached the season with a "we need to be in the top 8 after 23 Rounds".....when they did they suddenly realised "oops we're miles behind now to get top 4". This year they not only went for being in the top 4 after 23 rounds but topping the whole table. You get the feeling that's exactly what's happening to Widnes now, just targeting to be inside the 8.

Unless you went silly and made the playoffs involve too many teams then their isn't ANY system in sport that can get all teams involved up to the end. Premiership you usually have some mid table teams with not a lot to fight for with 8-10 left. In America, NFL, NBA, MLB, you can teams loads of games back with several games left and zero chance. These sports manage just fine but surprise surprise in RL all we hear is moaning that a team like Widnes Vikings aren't able to still push for the title with only 7 games left and we shake up the format again because of it.

We've got a tight battle for the first 5 teams, who wins LLS is too close to call, who gets the all important home advantage in the playoffs, which team misses out all together........but oh no Widnes Vikings have nothing to play for when they play this weekend and this takes president in peoples views? What a joke.

Exactly. Its up to the sides that want to be in the top 8 to do better over the regular season. Whilst the S8s is a bit of a gimmick it probably kept the season alive for Widnes longer than without it.

Even when we've had smaller play offs there's usually been at least one team that gets hammered when it matters, and under a simple league format half the teams are basically treading water for most of the season. In the past with a simple league system we had multiple cup competitions to keep things lively (County Cups early season, JPT mid season, Premiership at the end for those teams that hadn't mentally gone on holiday). The only teams that played right to the end were those in genuine fear of relegation and those in with a shot of topping the table.

No system is perfect. But whilst it is a bit gimmicky and crowds are lower you have to admit that the bottom SL sides have to keep playing to the end to avoid the threat of the MPG if at all possible, the Championship teams at least get to play big games (and maybe even a chance to get into SL for one of them), and the top 5 or 6 clubs have the chance to win the competition with just 7 games to go. That realistically only leaves 3 or so teams with nothing much to play for at the end of the year - and if they'd played better in the regular season that wouldn't be the case. Why would you make any changes to the format for the benefit of mediocre sides?

It's like when you played football when you were young in the park and after a long game someone would just say ''right lads, next goal wins!''

The Super 8,s concept is OK its the competitive level of super league that is the problem. Last year 8th place started 13 points off 1st place and 8 points off 4th place, this year 14 points off 1st place and 8 points off 4th place. You could possibly tweak the starting points of the super 8's but you will still need to reward the first 23 rounds.
Possibly start 1st place on 8, 2nd place on 7, 3rd place on 6, 4th place on 5, 5th place on 4, 6th place on 3, 7th place on 2, 8th place on 1. That would give 8th place only 4 points to make up, possibly introduce more intensity and maybe reduce the no of dead rubber games towards the back end of the 8.s.

why are some people so obsessed with trying to make sure the teams who have played badly for 23 rounds and hence are so far behind the leaders be given a second chance. If you want to be in the top 4 after 30 rounds and be in with a chance of winning the title then the answer is simple...........play the first 23 games as though you entire season depends on it.......

Stop letting the tail wag the dog..........it is for the weaker teams to improve not start handicapping the better teams...


imagine the outcry if the teams who finish 1st to 4th after 23 rounds suggested that the top placed team get all 7 games at home, the 2nd placed team get 6 home games etc. etc. etc. as a reward for taking the first 23 rounds seriously......It's no more ludicrous than the no hopers in 7th & 8th wanting to be suddenly given equal status for the final 7 super 8 games.......

But that's the whole point. We don't know it's not working. We don't know it is working. It's been 1 season. We have to give it time otherwise there's no point introducing another new system if we're just going to change that after 1 season.

We've had 7 different systems just in the 20 seasons of SL. That's daft and doesn't allow or encourage longer term planning from either the sport as a whole or the clubs.

I agree that the current system isn't working that well, last year at Hull we finished in 8th but so far behind that we knew from the start that we wouldn't make the 4, that resulted in a drab Summer of dead rubber games with poor crowds. So I can sympathise with Widnes on this point. However I disagree that points should be reset as it makes the league artificial and also means that some games in the first stage would become dead rubber (Hull would have rested their entire team for our last league game and concentrated on the cup Semi-Final for example)

This year of course we are top of the league, so the prospect of a summer of competitive rugby against the biggest sides is attractive, however I still don't feel the Super8s have caught the imagination of the public, our crowd last week was just the same as our average and most crowds last summer didn't seem exceptional.

the only thing I will say for the concept is that its increased interest in Championship teams, I now keep an eye on what results teams like Leigh & Bradford are getting, whereas a few years ago they were very off the radar. The other reason I think the concept will stay is that it provides SKY with a summer of 'top' games which is exactly what they want, with all due respect they don't really want to show Salford - Wakefield at any time, they only do so for contractual reasons.

Would a 'Top 6' and 'bottom 6 + top 2 from the Championship' format work better? as surely in any year the 6th place team are still going to be in with a shout, whilst realistically are the 3rd & 4th place teams in the Championship really going to compete?

the other issue is the timing of the Challenge Cup, we now have a scenario where Hull & Warrington are distracted with winning that and league performances will suffer. Personally I'd move the final to end June/Early July at the end of the regular season, you also have the bonus of it getting more media attention as theres no football or RU on at this time.

I have still never seen a convincing argument for a playoff structure, other than the financial success it brings.

In terms of being a show piece and promoting the sport then we would have been far better on FPTP last year as Ryan Hall scoring with literally the last play of the game to win the championship at Huddersfield would have been our own Aguero moment. Having the top teams gunning for the top place all season, rather than knowing the odd thrown game whilst resting players will not matter, would be much more entertaining, and make 95% of the calendar (Every normal game) more interesting. All you lose is 3 matches at the end of the season.

We have the playoffs so we can have a night at Old Trafford where we bring in a load of money. There is no reason to have it, if every team plays every other team the same amount of times (make magic a weekend in the cup) then the Champions are the team that finishes first, not someone who wins a few games at the end of the season.

Make the Old Trafford game Champions vs Cup winners for a big cash prize or a new trophy. No need to come up with some convoluted system to try and reinvent the wheel!

I've always said make the team that finishes first champions, then turn the top 8's into a different cup competition, like in football with the fa and league cup.

One thing is plainly obvious by reading the last few pages, there's no clear fix. There isn't a structure or format that anyone has put forward that is perfect, every structure will have it's issues.

It looks like we're trying to satisfy all of the following criteria at once:
- A pathway to Superleague from the Championship/C1
- No dead rubbers (nigh on impossible in any league)
- Not rewarding mediocrity with playoff spots
- Equal and fair fixtures
etc etc etc

Licencing wasn't perfect. It rendered the championship almost pointless, it rewarded sides in 7th & 8th a playoff spot, sides mathematically incapable of making the top8 are faced with a load of dead rubbers etc. (There were some positive points too of course).

Personally, I think as a sport we need to get out of the mind set that every club should always be playing for something, the 'every minute counts' mantra. We have to accept that there will be dead rubbers whatever the league structure.

All of the clubs knew the league format before the season started - if they didn't want to be involved in dead rubbers, then make sure your positioned where you need to be so that you're not. Be better.

Dead rubbers are part and parcel of pretty much every league structure;
NRL: 16 Clubs, Top8 Playoff, no relegation, 24 games/2 byes
RU Premiership: 14 Clubs, top4 Playoff, bottom placed relegated, top6 qualify for Europe.
EPL: 20 clubs, no playoffs, top4/5 qualify for Europe, bottom 3 relegated.

In the NRL, there are 4 clubs already into dead rubber territory. EPL have loads of crap pointless games shoehorned at the end of MOTD. The RU Prem is probably the best format of the three (in terms of meeting the criteria at the top), but they have the incentive of European qualification.

Deciding the Champions via a Playoff Structure/Grand Final is Rugby League's traditional method, going right back to 1895. It was only for the period 1973-97 where it was declared by who finished top.

A 3rd trophy needs to be introduced, a new competition, the game is crying out for it.

If you then get knocked out of the Challenge Cup and a new knockout trophy early and end up in the Super 8s not able to break into the top 4..there's less to grumble about.

yeah i am not feeling this team who finishes top should be super league champions with the exclusion of play-offs. The team who finishes top are the super league minor champions. nothing wrong with that!

we just cant seem to get this play off format right. the competition only has 6 teams at a max who can make the play-offs competitive.

I got not problem with top 5/6 going into play off rounds and we build from that. If we can get to a position where we have 8 strong enough teams then we extend it. yeah it means towards end of the season we will see dead rubbers but that is sport. You will never stop dead rubbers and every other sport has it so dunno why in super league we all seem to get so worked up about it.