FORUMS > The Virtual Terrace > The "TRUE" financial state of the game |
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| The problem is the lack of competition for the broadcasting rights. Setanta were the only serious attempt to crack SKY's sporting monopoly, and look what happened there. The BBC will shell out for the directors' old school friends down at Twickers, but that's it, and under the incoming Cameron Government, the BBC will find itself even less likely to be able to do anything Murdoch isn't keen on.
It's hard to see where a competitor to SKY could come from, unless one of the major US networks decided it wanted to start a European operation. If that were the case, then RL would be a tasty morsel because of its viewer numbers, but... BUT.... it's not enough on it's own. The only sport in this country which will sell enough subscriptions to make an operation viable is
soccer. That's why Murdoch will pay through the nose for that, because he knows that by puchasing soccer he's effectively purchasing the sports broadcasting market as a whole.
I can't really envisage a situation in which SKY isn't the only game in town. That sucks. We effectively have to rely on them continuing to see the need for RL to be fully professional in order to bring in the subscriptions and advertising they want.
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| why are the other FTA channels in teh UK not interested in showing sport? I always thought sport was a high audience event for TV channels? I know it isn't cheap to show live sport but if there is an audience, and with loads of channels these days to fill I'm surprised there isn;t more interest. Or is it just that SKY pays for exclusive rights and the RFL have never dared challenge this by putting it out on the open market?
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| Quote: JB Down Under "why are the other FTA channels in teh UK not interested in showing sport? I always thought sport was a high audience event for TV channels? I know it isn't cheap to show live sport but if there is an audience, and with loads of channels these days to fill I'm surprised there isn;t more interest. Or is it just that SKY pays for exclusive rights and the RFL have never dared challenge this by putting it out on the open market?'"
I would suspect thats the case.
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| Quote: SmokeyTA "If we are ignoring the one-off income of the sale of assets, then we should also ignore the one off investment in the southstand, which mean Leeds would again be making a Profit, GH and Co also grew the business by nigh on a million pounds last year
Hull FC and Bradford had fine financial results, Wigan isnt too bad but has needed restructuring a fair bit which will cost,
Wire and Hudds have clearly got the backing and now, infrastructure, if they stay patient, growth will follow
what we are seeing isnt 'the game' in bad shape, its the traditionally smaller clubs left behind as the game grows as we always knew they would,
Saints have the potential to catch up, but it is entirely dependant on a new stadium, Salford also clearly need a new stadium which should give them the impetus and opportunity for rapid growth,
Hull KR are in a strange position as they have racked up pretty big debts to promote very rapid growth, however the place they need to be to sustainable and make some dent in those debts is further on to where they are now in terms of support and facilities, they also would be hoping the support follows after better facilities but have already admitted they cant really get from where they are to where they need to be without help,
Wakefield and Castlefords two biggest problems are their stadia and each other. Castleford have never made that break through into that top tier were they regularly look like challenging, they have a hardcore of support which is fairly good, but dont have the a huge amount of growth potential and have never looked like a club which will grow massively from where it is now. Wakefield have lurched from crisis to crisis throughout their SL life. IMO they have more potential than Cas and have the potential to unite the district and finally give it the team it can be proud of and the team the young players in the district deserve. However they have yet to execute anything of note in SL, the squad is packed with Aussies, and they seem pretty insecure financially, both are also desperate for their new stadia
( i have left out the expansion clubs in an attempt to keep the topic at least a little on track)
what i am trying to say is the game doesnt look that unhealthy, out of those clubs, more than half (6) look to be in a fine position, one would almost certainly be if they can sort out their stadium, another has huge potential if it can get its stadia sorted and tap into the huge market on its doorstep
one club on anothers doorstep who have grown massively, have decent crowds but are struggling for investment to take them to the next level in the biggest economic meltdown for many a year
then we have Wakefield and Castleford who both seem to be at a crossroads where big questions need to be asked, and they need to be brave enough to ask them
all in all, it doesnt strike me as a game in trouble but a few clubs'"
Will never happen smokey, like sayin the two hulls or, leeds and bradford could unite under one banner. cas fans and fev fans will never ever support a team called wakefield, and since castleford and featherstone combinedhave about 2/3 of the districts rl support the district will never unite under one banner. no one from castlford, featherstone, pontefract or knottingley considers themselves as being in anyway part of wakefield, even parts of normington are of the same opinion. The council reorganisation was a beurocratic change not one in the identity of the areas. If leeds was for some reason swallowed up into the area of bradford council would you coinsider yourself from bradford? would you suddenly want to become a bulls supporter?
there is actually a wakefield fan on the cas board asking if the district should be split up into castleford and wakefield just to give you an idea of how much we are united in this district.
However i do agree with you that both wakefield and castlford are at a crossroads and the next few years will be the differance between success and many more years in sl and being dropped down to the championship.
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| Quote: Adeybull "Yes, I suspect you are.
Add £1.2m extra loss onto the reported results of each club, and some (sponsorship etc), and then tell me which clubs - or their backers - could stand that?'"
Give a FTA a free deal for the right coverage, watch merchandise/crowds/sponsorship rise and it will quickly replace lost revenue.
The clubs unable to adapt will move down a peg and those in a better position to do so will move up. The gap between divisions would be more breachable.
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| Quote: maurice "Give a FTA a free deal for the right coverage, watch merchandise/crowds/sponsorship rise and it will quickly replace lost revenue.
The clubs unable to adapt will move down a peg and those in a better position to do so will move up. The gap between divisions would be more breachable.'"
Sorry but could not disagree more.
If you take £1.2m (minimum) out of every club's income, with little warning, many will go straight to the wall. Their financial situation is so tenuous. They simply cannot replace that revenue overnight, if at all. Leeds could probably stand the initial shock - you can doi that when you are owned by a plc and you made a mint from selling a cricket ground - and a club with a rich owner prepared to stump up that much cash on TOP of what he already does could ride the initial storm until or unless he said "stakes too high - I fold", but it would immediately kill any other clubs. And £1.2m is a hell of a lot of revenue to make up - for example, you would need around 12.5k more on the gate EACH GAME to achieve that. From day 1. If indeed you could fit them in.
And you are IMO extremely extremely näive if you think crowds will rise substantially. Why should they? Especially since half the competition will have been blown into oblivion before the season even starts, and which non-SL clubs could immediately step up to SL level - and SL costs? Widnes, if O'Connor put his hand much much further in his pocket, and who else? You would start the first season with a handful of clubs. At best.
And as for sponsorship...the big deals come from the brands being seen on TV anyway. So why on EARTH would sponsorship rise substantially? If you think viewing figures would rocket through a seriously weakened competition being shown on a FTA I fear you are way too optimistic.
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| Quote: a.n Other "I would suspect thats the case.'"
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as usual you would be wrong
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| Quote: dally messenger "\
as usual you would be wrong'"
As usual i couldnt care less what you think. Troll. Leave the discussions to people who care about the game. Thanks
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| Interesting argument, but here's another dimension.
Never mind the clubs - what if the RFL themselves found themselves in administration? What would happen then?
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An Aussie tour, pretty damn sharpish.
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| Quote: Steve Fox "Quote: Steve Fox "A ten team league along the following lines would be interesting...
Leeds
St Helens
Wigan
Bradford
Hull
Hull KR
Harlequins
Catalans
Toulouse
Crusaders'" '"
A ten team SL , now who was suggesting such a thing a few weeks/months ago ?
Obviously what followed this post by Steve fox was other fans idea's of what Super league should look like [ usually including their club instead of somebody else's ] , whats up boys , the sport not as important as YOUR club , not forgetting that you are all RL fans before you're club fans
Yeah right
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| Quote: a.n Other "As usual i couldnt care less what you think. Troll. Leave the discussions to people who care about the game. Thanks'"
you should only comment about things which are true.
this would mean much less commentry.
the BBC were interested in the SL rights previously when the RFL was holding off from Sky but their offer was less.
pleased to help
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| Quote: Starbug "A ten team SL , now who was suggesting such a thing a few weeks/months ago ?
Obviously what followed this post by Steve fox was other fans idea's of what Super league should look like [ usually including their club instead of somebody else's ] , whats up boys , the sport not as important as YOUR club , not forgetting that you are all RL fans before you're club fans
Yeah right
Not the 2 FT divisions of 10 logic that was suggested a few years ago, 27 games and play offs, 1 up 1 down. 50% SL2 to SL1. Expand game without getting thrashed every week or having to buy a team of past it aussies/kiwis. Accomodating all clubs who had shown SL ambition, ie Fax , Widnes, Leigh and possibly Fev from last Franchise bids plus Toulouse and Cumbria. Drop overseas to 1 in SL2 and ringfence for 3 years to allow other ambitious clubs to plan and grow.
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| Quote: dally messenger "you should only comment about things which are true.
this would mean much less commentry.
the BBC were interested in the SL rights previously when the RFL was holding off from Sky but their offer was less.
pleased to help'"
Link/evidence?
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| Quote: ROBINSON "
Never mind the clubs - what if the RFL themselves found themselves in administration? What would happen then?'"
Could easily have happened in the past, pretty difficult nowadays.
Large proportion of RFL income comes from Sport England and has lots of strings attached in terms of what it gets spent on, as it all is monitored pretty closely. There have been other sports were this has happened (hockey) and Sport England works pretty hard to keep individual governing bodies on the right path financially.
Obviously, If the government reduces public spending on sport, then the RFL income will take a cut and development officer posts etc. will go.
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