No, just that a comparative value such as crappiness needs to be compared to something.

Senior has only been the best Centre in SL since Newlove retired

Nothing against him persoanlly except he just isn't good enough at Test level. When he gets of the plane I doubt he will play for England again especially after his girlfriend gets hold of him.

It's about time we stopped bagging individual players. Senior and Gleeson were and still are clearly the best British centres at the moment. The fact that they are both way behind their opponents is another matter entirely. Senior at his best a few years ago was probably the minimum standard you'd want in an international centre. Both are very poor defensively.

Similarly Wellens. Best English full back in SL? Yes, entirely. International class? Absolutely nowhere near. And on it goes...you can have the same debate about every single back and the answer when you put club loyalties aside would be the same - up there in SL, out of their depth internationally.

The forwards have also been found out at this world cup. Every man and his dog has been busy slating the outside backs' defence - which has been pretty dire. But watch the way the Australian forwards get involved in attack and defence and you'll see a big difference in quality.

That hasn't changed from the last Tri Nations - lots of English forwards could look at their stats and say to themselves that they didn't miss many tackles and made yards. Completely ignoring the fact that they didn't even get near enough to 'miss' some tackles as they were lazy covering or simply didn't read the play at all, and that they hadn't acted as a decoy all night, simply expecting the backs to somehow conjure up overlaps from nothing.

The problems in SL/English players are more fundamental than just a lack of athletes/quality in the backs. The forwards were in many ways even more disappointing because I think it IS where our 'strength' is relative to others.

Basically we have some individually talented players playing regularly in a p*ss weak competition. It really shouldn't surprise anyone if those same players struggle to play to a higher standard with any kind of regularity - both within the 80 minutes of a game and for more than one game.

The players are talented enough that if they all play to their best we can squeak the odd win against NZ and even Aus if they play badly, but I really think that the fact we didn't manage to do that this time round is a good thing if people are forced to accept the facts.

One thing that I've not seen discussed (probably has elsewhere) is JP & the captain issue. I think only the myopic would claim JP doesn't lead by example, however after Saturday I am convinced he cannot handle the communication side of it. The incident that stood out was where the 3 English players drove Lance Hohaia (little sh/t) back over the line. The legitimacy of the tackle is another issue, but the ref's treatment of the incident with little sh/t banging the ball into Wilkin's face (I can see the attraction) was pathetic. JP knew this but he seemed so caught up in the inequity of it he coudn't even speak & looked like he was about to cry. Farrell or Sculthorpe, talents aside, would have been straight in the ref's face.

Quote: Tony Catsmith "i know what his girlfriend has against him.'" here she is again == www.thekennel.com.au/forum/showt ... hp?t=56694 AUSTRALIA and Melbourne Storm star Greg Inglis is in hot water after the NRL golden boy was snapped with the infamous WAG-wannabe Charmyne Palavi. The notorious NRL maneater already has claimed the scalps of Johnathan Thurston and Keith Senior. It's understood the snaps were taken during a raucous night of partying in Townsville on the eve of Australia's World Cup clash with Papua New Guinea, with fellow Kangaroos Scott Prince, Darren Lockyer and Israel Folau all at the boozy bash. Not surprisingly, the pictures have come to the attention of Inglis's longtime girlfriend Sally Robinson. "She has known about it for a while," a Melbourne source told Confidential. "She's not happy, obviously." As for the status of their relationship, a Melbourne Storm spokesman refused to comment on behalf of their star player, citing it as a "personal" issue. But a friend of the couple admitted things were tense in what is already a rocky relationship.

Quote: Tony Catsmith "i know what his girlfriend has against him.'" here she is again == www.thekennel.com.au/forum/showt ... hp?t=56694 AUSTRALIA and Melbourne Storm star Greg Inglis is in hot water after the NRL golden boy was snapped with the infamous WAG-wannabe Charmyne Palavi. The notorious NRL maneater already has claimed the scalps of Johnathan Thurston and Keith Senior. It's understood the snaps were taken during a raucous night of partying in Townsville on the eve of Australia's World Cup clash with Papua New Guinea, with fellow Kangaroos Scott Prince, Darren Lockyer and Israel Folau all at the boozy bash. Not surprisingly, the pictures have come to the attention of Inglis's longtime girlfriend Sally Robinson. "She has known about it for a while," a Melbourne source told Confidential. "She's not happy, obviously." As for the status of their relationship, a Melbourne Storm spokesman refused to comment on behalf of their star player, citing it as a "personal" issue. But a friend of the couple admitted things were tense in what is already a rocky relationship.

senior is a quality player but is at the back end of his career, we need quality centres for the next world cup.

1 - he keeps saying he's retiring, which is a good reason to try a fresh face.
2 - we don't like him because we can't find a better player for that position, which is disappointing.

Can he afford to retire?

He seems to rely on football shirts and Medals on ebay to make a living.
if he couldn't sell his losing shirts and medals could he maintain his Stables?

Never liked the guy...Since he was a Sheffield Eagles player and he knocked out B.J Mather in the QF of the CC.
He was /is? a quality player tho...just hate his guts

BJ Mather deserved it.

for me, Keith Senior is one of the best ever player of the league

Pour moi, aussi.

Average skills and ability, past his use by date a couple of years ago.

In his favour, big, fit and durable

In his pomp he was as good as anything the Aussies had to offer.