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| Quote SmokeyTA="SmokeyTA"Sinfield is superior to most NRL players as he is Super League players. As is anybody in, or talked about as serious contenders for the England squad, they would go there and be stars.
Probably not the best, but in the top 10-20% of players.
The best English players are among the best players in the world. Burgess, Ellis, Morley et al all prove it.'"
I realise you are on a gee up.
Not all teams are looking for a player like Sinfield for their team or would want a 32 year old utility player.
Pretty sure he would not take over Captaincy from many of the current Club Captains.
Just the concept that a player that is unfamiliar with the NRL and comes from another very different league would be made the leader and Captain is pretty unlikely in the real world.
I wish Kevin had tried his hand in the NRL when he was younger and in his prime, he would have done ok as a Hooker, not in the Halves. | | |
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| Quote Damo-Leeds="Damo-Leeds"[size=150Fylde_Warrior's response is going to be very interesting [/sizeindeed now New Zealand and the super league connections have being bough into the debate.'"
I doubt it Damo, I doubt it! | | | |
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| Quote Buggo="Buggo"I realise you are on a gee up.
Not all teams are looking for a player like Sinfield for their team or would want a 32 year old utility player.
Pretty sure he would not take over Captaincy from many of the current Club Captains.
Just the concept that a player that is unfamiliar with the NRL and comes from another very different league would be made the leader and Captain is pretty unlikely in the real world.
I wish Kevin had tried his hand in the NRL when he was younger and in his prime, he would have done ok as a Hooker, not in the Halves.'"
I didn’t say Sinfield would go to every team, it would be a pretty pointless argument anyway.
Why would the Warriors or Manly or Souths or Bronco’s sign Billy Slater?
I said Sinfield was superior to most NRL players, he is. He is better than most halves and loose forwards in the NRL. As Tomkins would be among the best fullbacks, he wouldn’t go to the Warriors, Manly, Souths, Broncos or Storm because they have superior fullbacks, he would be an improvement on the rest. James Roby probably wouldn’t be wanted by Canterbury, Storm or Wests, he would be an improvement for everyone else.
The best of the NRL is, in most cases, but not all, better than our best. The rest of the NRL are inferior to our best. | | |
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| Quote SmokeyTA="SmokeyTA"I didn’t say Sinfield would go to every team, it would be a pretty pointless argument anyway.
Why would the Warriors or Manly or Souths or Bronco’s sign Billy Slater?
I said Sinfield was superior to most NRL players, he is. =#FF0000He is better than most halves and loose forwards in the NRL. As Tomkins would be among the best fullbacks, he wouldn’t go to the Warriors, Manly, Souths, Broncos or Storm because they have superior fullbacks, he would be an improvement on the rest. James Roby probably wouldn’t be wanted by Canterbury, Storm or Wests, he would be an improvement for everyone else.
The best of the NRL is, in most cases, but not all, better than our best. The rest of the NRL are inferior to our best.'"
Beverley Red posted
[iYou are a total idiot (in my opinion at least) Sinfield would walk into any NRL side & would be the captain to boot. [/i
My original point was responding to Beverley reds comments.
I do not agree with the comment you made in red but that is just my opinion.
His style may work in England, a Goal kicking Utility player, but it is not what is looked for in a Stand off in the NRL. (IMO) | | |
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| Quote Buggo="Buggo"Beverley Red posted
[iYou are a total idiot (in my opinion at least) Sinfield would walk into any NRL side & would be the captain to boot. [/i
My original point was responding to Beverley reds comments.
I do not agree with the comment you made in red but that is just my opinion.
His style may work in England, a Goal kicking Utility player, but it is not what is looked for in a Stand off in the NRL. (IMO)'"
He would get in to pretty much any NRL side. I see no reason why you would make him captain or at the very least make part of a senior leadership team.
Sinfield isn’t a goal-kicking utility, he is a loose-forward or Stand-off, who, because of the multitude of skills he posses can cover at hooker. | | | |
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| Quote SmokeyTA="SmokeyTA"He would get in to pretty much any NRL side. =#FF00BFI see no reason why you would make him captain or at the very least make part of a senior leadership team.
[iIs this a typo?[/i
Sinfield isn’t a goal-kicking utility, he is a loose-forward or Stand-off, who, because of the multitude of skills he posses can cover at hooker.'"
Into an NRL side as a Stand Off? or Lock?
He is too slow to be a threat in the Halves especially at 32. | | |
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| Quote Buggo="Buggo"Into an NRL side as a Stand Off? or Lock?
He is too slow to be a threat in the Halves especially at 32.'"
yes it was a typo, He would probably be a stand-off now, im not sure his body would be up to playing for as many minutes, as many times as he does in the pack anymore.
And nobody is 'too slow' for stand off, it isnt a pre-requisite of being a Stand-off. No position in RL is just a list of skills, success comes from blending those skills with others in the team
Wally Lewis wasnt blisteringly fast, Greg Bird isnt. | | |
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Quote SmokeyTA="SmokeyTA"yes it was a typo, He would probably be a stand-off now, im not sure his body would be up to playing for as many minutes, as many times as he does in the pack anymore.
And nobody is 'too slow' for stand off, it isnt a pre-requisite of being a Stand-off. No position in RL is just a list of skills, success comes from blending those skills with others in the team
Wally Lewis wasnt blisteringly fast, Greg Bird isnt.'"
But Bird has been in the pack for most of the last two seasons, as he has filled out he has hardly played Stand off, sure he did when he was younger and had acceleration.
Lewis was not as slow as many think, sure towards the end of his Career he had slowed down but he made plenty of breaks himself for most of his time in the game certainly broke the line often.
www.youtube.com/watch?feature=pl ... YHHS1M7iAw
If a Coach knows his team is facing a stand off that is unlikely to take on his opposite man with strength or speed he can set a game plan against that sort of player and cut off distribution to the backs.
Australia do this often to England where the backs see little or no ball. |
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Quote SmokeyTA="SmokeyTA"yes it was a typo, He would probably be a stand-off now, im not sure his body would be up to playing for as many minutes, as many times as he does in the pack anymore.
And nobody is 'too slow' for stand off, it isnt a pre-requisite of being a Stand-off. No position in RL is just a list of skills, success comes from blending those skills with others in the team
Wally Lewis wasnt blisteringly fast, Greg Bird isnt.'"
But Bird has been in the pack for most of the last two seasons, as he has filled out he has hardly played Stand off, sure he did when he was younger and had acceleration.
Lewis was not as slow as many think, sure towards the end of his Career he had slowed down but he made plenty of breaks himself for most of his time in the game certainly broke the line often.
www.youtube.com/watch?feature=pl ... YHHS1M7iAw
If a Coach knows his team is facing a stand off that is unlikely to take on his opposite man with strength or speed he can set a game plan against that sort of player and cut off distribution to the backs.
Australia do this often to England where the backs see little or no ball. | |
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Sinfields age is nothing to do with the argument, Last year he was outstanding & has been consistantly good all his carreer. I said he would walk into most NRL teams & would improve them with his leadership quality alone He would have had a long & glorious carreer if he had been in the NRL. As he has been at Leeds some people seem to think that that counts for little. Remember how Leeds were always the great overspending under achiving side as long as I have been involved in the game (50 years +) the fact that they are now champions five times in recent times is down to a great part in their leaders the most important of who is Sinfield. The fact he has not had succsess as an international is not his fault (the super stars from the south wouldn,t play this year) it is not his fault that (according to some) that the Aussies dont take the WCC seriously. As a HKR fan I would welcome him into our side with open arms even at 32 as weould most clubs if he decided to change clubs. I hope he has one last moment of glory & lifts the world cup. As with other fans this year we will look at the Leeds team sheet & will get that extra lift if he is not playing (not that wish harm ti him) he is that good.
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Quote Buggo="Buggo"But Bird has been in the pack for most of the last two seasons, as he has filled out he has hardly played Stand off, sure he did when he was younger and had acceleration.
Lewis was not as slow as many think, sure towards the end of his Career he had slowed down but he made plenty of breaks himself for most of his time in the game certainly broke the line often.
www.youtube.com/watch?feature=pl ... YHHS1M7iAw
If a Coach knows his team is facing a stand off that is unlikely to take on his opposite man with strength or speed he can set a game plan against that sort of player and cut off distribution to the backs.
Australia do this often to England where the backs see little or no ball.'"
Yet we have tried primarily running stand-offs and that hasn’t worked either. If a coach knows a player is primarily a running stand-off then he can plan for that aswell. That is why we need to focus on combinations instead of individuals. There is no reason that Tomkins from fullback cant provide the speed in the halves. There is no reason we couldn’t, accommodate 5 creative players on the pitch for a period of time. With Sinfield or Roby defending at Loose for a period, with Burrow at hooker, Tomkins pushed forward and Hardaker/Widdop at fullback. Giving a huge amount of options, Burrow and Roby able to make metres around the ruck bringing the defence into the middle, Sinfield and Burrow/Roby able to get it wide to Tomkins and Hardaker/Widdop chiming into the line, as the extra pivot. Having one of these combinations at either side of the ruck means a defence cant slide as easily, and needed to cover the middle. Obviously there is the defensive side of things with having all 5 of those players not being the strongest defenders, but a big starting pack of Graham, Roby, Morley, Ellis, Westwood, Burgess and 3 forwards like Hock, Crabtree, JJB/Ablett/Hill doing lots in lots of short stints should be able to cover for that. |
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Quote Buggo="Buggo"But Bird has been in the pack for most of the last two seasons, as he has filled out he has hardly played Stand off, sure he did when he was younger and had acceleration.
Lewis was not as slow as many think, sure towards the end of his Career he had slowed down but he made plenty of breaks himself for most of his time in the game certainly broke the line often.
www.youtube.com/watch?feature=pl ... YHHS1M7iAw
If a Coach knows his team is facing a stand off that is unlikely to take on his opposite man with strength or speed he can set a game plan against that sort of player and cut off distribution to the backs.
Australia do this often to England where the backs see little or no ball.'"
Yet we have tried primarily running stand-offs and that hasn’t worked either. If a coach knows a player is primarily a running stand-off then he can plan for that aswell. That is why we need to focus on combinations instead of individuals. There is no reason that Tomkins from fullback cant provide the speed in the halves. There is no reason we couldn’t, accommodate 5 creative players on the pitch for a period of time. With Sinfield or Roby defending at Loose for a period, with Burrow at hooker, Tomkins pushed forward and Hardaker/Widdop at fullback. Giving a huge amount of options, Burrow and Roby able to make metres around the ruck bringing the defence into the middle, Sinfield and Burrow/Roby able to get it wide to Tomkins and Hardaker/Widdop chiming into the line, as the extra pivot. Having one of these combinations at either side of the ruck means a defence cant slide as easily, and needed to cover the middle. Obviously there is the defensive side of things with having all 5 of those players not being the strongest defenders, but a big starting pack of Graham, Roby, Morley, Ellis, Westwood, Burgess and 3 forwards like Hock, Crabtree, JJB/Ablett/Hill doing lots in lots of short stints should be able to cover for that. | |
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| International Star | 718 | No
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| Quote Beverley red="Beverley red"Sinfields age is nothing to do with the argument, Last year he was outstanding & has been consistantly good all his carreer. I said he would walk into most NRL teams & would improve them with his leadership quality alone He would have had a long & glorious carreer if he had been in the NRL. As he has been at Leeds some people seem to think that that counts for little. Remember how Leeds were always the great overspending under achiving side as long as I have been involved in the game (50 years +) the fact that they are now champions five times in recent times is down to a great part in their leaders the most important of who is Sinfield. =#FF0040The fact he has not had succsess as an international is not his fault (the super stars from the south wouldn,t play this year) it is not his fault that (according to some) that the Aussies dont take the WCC seriously. As a HKR fan I would welcome him into our side with open arms even at 32 as weould most clubs if he decided to change clubs. I hope he has one last moment of glory & lifts the world cup. As with other fans this year we will look at the Leeds team sheet & will get that extra lift if he is not playing (not that wish harm ti him) he is that good.'"
You are entitled to your opinion Beverly Red.
The one thing I will mention is the highlighted text.
The "superstars" from down south did play last year, Australia played the World Champions twice as I recall.
Is it Englands god given right that Australia come to England to play? or host England by themselves in a series that may well lose money?
In or around the last decade Australia has hosted two Test series compared to England's four home series, hardly an even effort is it?
As for the WCC it is a pre season warm up that the Australians are contractually obliged to play, they are hardly going to say to the media they are not really interested in a one sided biased event that they don't really rate are they? | | | |
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| Quote SmokeyTA="SmokeyTA"Yet we have tried primarily running stand-offs and that hasn’t worked either. If a coach knows a player is primarily a running stand-off then he can plan for that aswell. That is why we need to focus on combinations instead of individuals. There is no reason that Tomkins from fullback cant provide the speed in the halves. There is no reason we couldn’t, accommodate 5 creative players on the pitch for a period of time. With Sinfield or Roby defending at Loose for a period, with Burrow at hooker, Tomkins pushed forward and Hardaker/Widdop at fullback. Giving a huge amount of options, Burrow and Roby able to make metres around the ruck bringing the defence into the middle, Sinfield and Burrow/Roby able to get it wide to Tomkins and Hardaker/Widdop chiming into the line, as the extra pivot. Having one of these combinations at either side of the ruck means a defence cant slide as easily, and needed to cover the middle. Obviously there is the defensive side of things with having all 5 of those players not being the strongest defenders, but a big starting pack of Graham, Roby, Morley, Ellis, Westwood, Burgess and 3 forwards like Hock, Crabtree, JJB/Ablett/Hill doing lots in lots of short stints should be able to cover for that.'"
Most of those players have been in the team for some time and they have not come close against Australia though.
You need a stand off that can run himself OR link up, not one or the other, that is what make defences question their options, if you can not offer a threat to the line yourself say as Thurston does then you are limited and you limit your team outside of you.
I would like Tomkins at Stand off to be honest, he would have the defences in two minds and bring them out of the line. | | | |
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