there are some extremist expansionism that are just going too far taking no care into how or who is brought in, I'm now going to sit a wait for it all to fail and come back with I told you so when it does but it won't be with a smile on my face

Well TWP are exposing Toronto to our game at the top level. However at the same time London Broncos are no longer exposing Londoners to top class Rugby league. There is no junior or academy game in Toronto yet there is in London and London lads have lost their pathway to Superleague accordingly. For me the nett result is a -minus for the game especially the way London heroically competed well in Superleague and TWP have just collapsed in their opening to the season.

With respect you must look at it both ways and for me on balance the addition of TWP to SL in replacement of the Broncos is actually not a good thing unless you ignore the plight of the Broncos, which you certainly do as do 90% of people who comment on this matter.

Ottawa need to do it properly and grow the game itself something Mr. Perez initially promised through the growth of home grown players no matter how long it takes. If their entry is on that basis I support it 100%.

If expansion is going to work then there should be six heritage teams and six ‘expansion’ teams to start with.

The heritage teams would be St Helens, Wigan, Warrington, Leeds, Hull and Castleford.

Toronto, Ottawa, New York, Catalans, Toulouse and London

No promotion no relegation an NRL style tournament.

All TV money goes to these 12 ‘professional ‘ clubs and there is an NFL draft so that no other clubs in any ‘complementary’ leagues can contract players until the above 12 teams have completed their 25 man squads.

All the other clubs would compete in a two tier league with the top league being part time and the second league amateur with an option for ‘five’ marquee part time players.

This competition would be played November to April, the top league April to October so all teams can play their home games at home.

To make up the fixtures for the two tier competition the Yorkshire and Lancashire Cups would be revived.

The Challenge cup would become a semi professional competition.

Assuming the UK teams retained SKY for UK games it would be incumbent on the French teams to get a self funding TV deal and the Nth American teams likewise.

Well that’s what the game could look like in the future but the interesting thing would be how long before the ‘heritage’ teams fans got fed up of only being able to watch 11 home games, half with no away support at all ?

Call me whatever you like but oh for the days of local derbies, decent Bank Holiday crowds and being able to watch everyone of my teams games without outlandish travel costs.

Well tonight I sort of get to sample it a Wednesday night cup game, these used to be special in my younger days, against a manufactured team with no away support and huge cries from elsewhere the poor crowd is all Huddersfield’s fault !!!

Bring on expansion for gates of 20,000 plus each week... AS IF

VERY astute.

Do any of us think that Eric Perez and Ralph Rimmer are going to sit back and allow Superleague to take a reduced £150M SKY deal over the coming year and do nothing about it?

Superleague wanted to cut Rimmer and 17 small championship clubs adrift the other year, Superleague want to kill Perez's American dream.

All bets are off - Lenegan McManus and Pearson are currently touting an English League to SKY, but there is nothing to stop Rimmer, and Perez touting a transatlantic league to NATV

The only glaring mistake in your thinking is Bradford Bulls will certainly be the first English club touted in a Transatlantic deal. In addition Ottawa Aces and New York may have no substance now - but Perez and Rimmer will no doubt be saying that players for these clubs will be found from the squads of the English clubs who don't make the transatlantic cut - and your right - Fartown would be killed off.

Quote: wrencat1873 "Do you have a link or some more information on their TV deal ?? AS for youngsters coming along as fans, TWP have done a fantastic job in getting bums on seats but, honestly, how long will it take to "create" any Canadian players. Have they tried to look at the current players and Union players over there or, do you think they are just pretending to put things in place. Their "search for a star" from gridiron looked great but, ultimately, turned out to be a publicity stunt. They are Canadian in name only and that has to change. As I said, they are a UK based side, that will struggle to employ Canadian players Apologies for the long reply. https://www.torontowolfpack.com/toronto ... on-opener/

Quote: wrencat1873 "Do you have a link or some more information on their TV deal ?? AS for youngsters coming along as fans, TWP have done a fantastic job in getting bums on seats but, honestly, how long will it take to "create" any Canadian players. Have they tried to look at the current players and Union players over there or, do you think they are just pretending to put things in place. Their "search for a star" from gridiron looked great but, ultimately, turned out to be a publicity stunt. They are Canadian in name only and that has to change. As I said, they are a UK based side, that will struggle to employ Canadian players Apologies for the long reply. https://www.torontowolfpack.com/toronto ... on-opener/

Yeah I did think of Bradford but the game would have to ‘bung’ them a lot of cash to sort out the perennial mess they are in.

The problem is that the premier competition and the RFL have different ideas where the game is going.

The transatlantic thing is rubbish unless it’s in a world where cheap airfares exist or the thought of travelling away fans is virtually a thing of the past.

Catalans and Toronto have done a great job of setting up a club in a local area and collecting a fan base.

However in the bigger RFL picture that hasn’t really expanded the game beyond those local areas which has to be the aim of this or it is just ‘folly.’

Toronto is essentially team England/ Australasia and the original aim for Catalans was to create a competitive French team which along with the emergence of Tonga, Fiji and PNG would have given us a strong seven team international world. Of course that’s not happened so essentially millions of pounds of sponsorship have been pumped in and without a strong French team it might as well have been pumped into Featherstone, Leigh or Bradford.

You can see why SL are going the opposite way as how long will the rest last with constant trips over the channel and Atlantic.. and with NFL NBA MLS MLB and massive College Coverage of American Football where’s a Lucrative American or French TV deal coming from... nowhere....

The bigger question that fails to be addressed is that why Hemel Stags, a 40 year established UK based RL club, can't get a working full time business model to aspire to reach SL status.

This is not a slight on Hemel, but a genuine question as to why, despite considerable efforts of those outside the heartlands, that the UK/European professional game has a clear problem with its expansion opportunities, that seemingly North America doesn't.

Money, Money, Money

If you have cash to burn, there is very little in life that you cant achieve.
For now, our friends accross the pond, literally have £millions to chuck at the venture, something that hasn't ever happened over here.
Yes, there are wealthy backers prepared to make up as shortfall at the end of the season but, Toronto are taking this to a new, unsustainable level, which is why we should all be a little cautious when ramping expectations of "global" leagues etc.

More importantly, should any club effectively be able to sell their place in the league - this seems a long way detached from "sport".

It might be a long way detached from "sport" but it isn't too far detached from a franchise model.

We could well end up with half a dozen SL clubs being "dropped" and replaced with the new world order.
Plastic clubs, with mercenary players, no youth or junior sides but taking the place of those less fashionable clubs.

You do wonder who came up with the idea - step forward Mr Nigel Wood

Or we could be stuck with legacy clubs using outdated business models, wholly reliant on Sky TV money, and a dwindling fan base - whilst other sports march ahead.

I went to Toronto / Kingston / Ottawa last summer to visit family and take in a few sights . I walked to TWP ground to have a look at it so I could say been there and I walked to Ottawa's ground in Lansdowne Park . Ottawa's is a far superior ground in a nice area with a cinema , shops , restaurants etc . Also Ottawa's ground is used by the Red Blacks (CFL) and until last season the Fury (Football) so they are more used to having the city represented at that ground, not the case in Toronto .

Canadian fans support their teams , they aren't too bothered if there are Canadians in the team , the Raptors didn't start with many Canadians and I don't believe the Blue Jays did either . The side note from our experience of Kingston would be that the Leafs are better supported that the Senators in Ontario , so I believe Ottawa's support would come from that city and suburbs , but Gatineau , Quebec is across the river and it used the called Hull.

In the end most people believe our sport is struggling , so why not try expansion, English Super League clubs have to look at the bigger picture not just their club as we could end up being left with fewer full time clubs .

Ottawa makes a NATV deal more appealing that either Super League as a whole gain from or just the NA clubs if a SKY deal or other UK broadcaster is just for the UK clubs .

New York again increases the NATV deal chances and might lead to Chicago , Jacksonville and others . If SKY etc are concerned with fewer UK clubs well why not increase Super League to 14 clubs and get rid of the loop fixtures , with 14 clubs there will be more UK clubs than now .

The supposed best league in the world the NRL have 16 clubs and are probably going to expand so why are we so stuck on 12 .

WRT expansion the NFL does pretty good on TV deals outside of the US and if such a cash rich league is also looking at expansion clubs outside the US then I would suggest that it probably is the way to go.

Imagine the future where say the schedule of each English club is the play New York then Ottawa then Toronto on consecutive weekends (yes I know that's a long way off) , but what a 2 week holiday you could have .

Yeah image the cost on clubs what is already a fragile sport

Saying is one thing coffing up the money to finance it is another

I despair at these dreamers

Perhaps it won't happen , the bigger dream is that our clubs won't be as cash strapped due to some great super duper TV deal . I was looking at it more from the perspective that if all 3 were to end up in Super League then would it not be cheaper certainly as a fan to only have to do one return Transatlantic flight in the season rather than three , whether that works out cheaper for an entire team I'm not sure. As a fan you choose how many you want to go to and you can drive or catch the train from Toronto to Ottawa .

My thoughts are that TWP will not survive in Super League and that as they go down Ottawa come up at join them which would cause a bigger problem for the Championship .