FORUMS > The Virtual Terrace > Could this be the most embarrassing England tour of all time |
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17489.jpg We’re disappointed but of the two trophies on offer, we’ll put one in our cabinet this year and go chasing the other one next year." Tony Smith:17489.jpg |
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| Quote: Kelvin's Ferret "He plays standoff in the NSW Cup, I'm not convinced that should put him ahead of any of the other choices for fullback in the England squad.'"
I agree! The problem we have is players playing in positions that don't match their club! Is tomkins going to play 1? When did sinfield last play 9 for Leeds? Eastmond isn't fit, myler and gardner have been left out of their teams play off match therefore not first choice for their clubs!
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| brough is back in the scotland squad now.
i dont think we are lacking in players,it's just that some of the players we have got aren't world class but with the right coaching and attitude then it's not always about individuals but a team thing
people say we are struggling in the halves? i dont agree personally, obviously tomkins and eastmond would be first choice 6+7 but tomkins has proved he is equally adept at full back,whether he has the stature to take that onto the international stage,we dont know,but i think he has.after those 2, then kev brown and burrow would be the 2nd choice, both are experienced,although not necessarily at international level, both have decent kicking games,then we have the likes of myler,robinson who can also cover at 9,sinfield who can cover at SO,matty smith who has had a good season and has an excellent kicking game,danny orr,luke gale,scott moore who can play in the halves also,maybe not brilliant individual players but still they are options.
as for centre's, well i would say shenton and atkins would be probably first choice,but gleeson has shown the form this year he showed a few years back and could be an option? foster has been brilliant for saints and would also be a good back up goalkicker, same with cudjoe who can also play wing and full back,goulding can also play centre but has been great for wigan on the wing,lawrence has had a cracking season with the giants but not sure if he is international material yet and can play both wing and centre,i think centre is his best position though.as for the wingers, i think we have plenty options there.
so to summarise i would say the options are there for mcnamara if he wants them
halves:
tomkins,brown,burrow,robinson,myler,eastmond,sinfield,gale,smith,moore
centres:
atkins,shenton,gleeson,cudjoe,lawrence,foster,goulding,even ellis if needs be
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| Quote: Wiremike "I agree! The problem we have is players playing in positions that don't match their club! Is tomkins going to play 1? When did sinfield last play 9 for Leeds? Eastmond isn't fit, myler and gardner have been left out of their teams play off match therefore not first choice for their clubs!'"
Very true. Tompkins was looking good at 6, now he is a fullback. Lunt was developing nicely at 9, now he is a 2nd row. In both of these cases i think there original positions are their best. Some situations in the last few weeks of SL has created problems for the England set up. But if we had more strength in depth these problems would not be as bad.
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| Quote: Kelvin's Ferret "He plays standoff in the NSW Cup, I'm not convinced that should put him ahead of any of the other choices for fullback in the England squad.'"
With Tomkins and Widdop, it looks like we have two young players who are equally capable of being effective at full back or stand off. This can't be a bad thing and will give the coach some real options
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| Theres no issue with versatility
Just because Lunts played a bit of second row doesn't mean he's 'forgot' how to play 9 ala a pokemon move.
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| Quote: Kelvin's Ferret "He plays standoff in the NSW Cup, I'm not convinced that should put him ahead of any of the other choices for fullback in the England squad.'"
Our options are seriously limited at fullback though. Iam not convinced by tompkins at fullback (not his natuarl posotion) and think he may get targetted under the high ball at that level. Wellens (retired) and Briscoe are good lads but never had enough pace for this level. Widdop is the only other option. I watched the Melb v Dogs game and Widdop looked really good at fullback. I know it is only 1 game but the lack of depth at fullback leaves us with only 2 real options. And with Eastmond and McG injured imo this calls our hand and the only option is for Widdop to start at 1 and Tompkins in the halves (where he should be playing anyway).
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| Quote: Dico "Theres no issue with versatility
Just because Lunts played a bit of second row doesn't mean he's 'forgot' how to play 9 ala a pokemon move.'"
I hope that McNamara agrees with you as I think that a Lunt/Roby interchange combination at 9 would work really well
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18919_1341147656.jpg [quote="King Monkey":30st820n]Maybe a spell in prison would do Graham good.
At least he'd lose his virginity.[/quote:30st820n]:d7dc4b20b2c2dd7b76ac6eac29d5604e_18919.jpg |
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| Quote: Code13 "See, the real problem is not always the coach, in this case I have little faith in him but...
Look at the suggested teams on this forum. Its the same faces, or more importantly, some players are automatically dismissed because they dont play for the right club.
Our wings are weak you say? Who says? Just because Leeds, Saints or Wigan have poor options on the wing doesnt mean all the other clubs do. - What about the likes of Cudjoe or Lawrence - oh sorry, they arent austrailian and dont play for XYZ so they must be crap.
centres? Again XYZ all have aussie/kiwi centres so GB musnt have any good ones. Or maybe, just maybe they dont play for the chosen clubs...
Halfbacks? There are more halfbacks of English origin than I can remember these days.
Somone has said Brown would get murdered over there. Why? He has been the guiding force behind the Giants for two seasons, not Hodgson - he has just added some real class at times but Kev Brown has been the real reason for our success.
Robinson, the only thing he is guilty of is trying too hard sometimes, but he has been superb at hooker this season and has the defence to bring down the big men too. Oh and he has a cracking kicking game
Maybe, just maybe if some people took of their blinkers and realised that the player pool at international level is a much, much different place than it was just 5 years ago, even 2 years ago then the better.
Maybe McNamara isnt the coach for the job, but so far he at least seems to be not letting the petty club prejudices of too many fans cloud his judgement for the train on squad.'"
Well except for the likes of Shenton, Bridge and Tom Briscoe who all played in the backs last season despite playing for teams that didn't make the playoffs. I don't agree that their is a prejudice against players from the lesser clubs. If you look at some of the players in the training squad its clear that if you play well you'll get some recognision, hence the reason why the likes of Watts, Murrell, Broughton, and Jones-Bishop are in the squad. They may not make the full squad to the fact that they're in the training squad shows they're atleast being considered.
I agree with you that Lawrence and Cudjoe should be in the squad, Lawrence looks to be one of the best centre prospects we've had in a while, has he played the full season at Hudds? Cudjoe seems a bit shaky to me defensivly but his pace and versitility are something we need, especially as it looks like we're going to go into the tournement with a few key players missing.
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| Quote: "lack of depth at fullback leaves us with only 2 real options'"
Have you read ANY of the preceeding posts?
Fullback options:
Widdop
Tomkins
Cudjoe
And thats just reading the posts on this page. thats 3 options right there.
EDIT.
Cudjoe's defence is sound, as sound as any winger's can be given they are often the target and 99% of the time he is safe as houses inder a kick.
Lawrence is one of the best defensive players we've seen in a long time, up there with the likes of Mick De Vere or Gary Connoly for defence. His try vs Saints shows his attack isnt too bad either...played the last 1/3 of the season as regular at centre/wing in partnership with Cudjoe.
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42169_1366443727.jpg Chorlton RL wrote- "Jonny, for me you hold the mantle of most sensible poster on the VT"
...............................................................................................................................................
Yed wrote: "He's like a Kevin Penny on steroids except he's good too"
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"What? What have I said now?" - Starbug 2013
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| Quote: Bondi_Warrior "IMO they are average at best on the international scene'"
Maybe so, but if Lote Tuquiri is playing for the aussies i'm not that scared.
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2115.jpg [img:1ucbtp34]http://i62.tinypic.com/2hs0qkg.jpg[/img:1ucbtp34]
[color=#BF0000:1ucbtp34]the [size=100:1ucbtp34]C[/size:1ucbtp34]laret [size=100:1ucbtp34]A[/size:1ucbtp34]nd [size=100:1ucbtp34]G[/size:1ucbtp34]old [size=100:1ucbtp34]M[/size:1ucbtp34]achine is ready to roll[/color:1ucbtp34]
sunday September 1st 2013, when a dream became a reality!!:2115.jpg |
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| Quote: Money Mayweather "Well except for the likes of Shenton, Bridge and Tom Briscoe who all played in the backs last season despite playing for teams that didn't make the playoffs. I don't agree that their is a prejudice against players from the lesser clubs. If you look at some of the players in the training squad its clear that if you play well you'll get some recognision, hence the reason why the likes of Watts, Murrell, Broughton, and Jones-Bishop are in the squad. They may not make the full squad to the fact that they're in the training squad shows they're atleast being considered.
[sizeI agree with you that Lawrence and Cudjoe should be in the squad, Lawrence looks to be one of the best centre prospects we've had in a while, has he played the full season at Hudds?[/size Cudjoe seems a bit shaky to me defensivly but his pace and versitility are something we need, especially as it looks like we're going to go into the tournement with a few key players missing.'"
"bruno's" super league statistics are as follows
2007 1 game, 0 tries
2008 12 games 4 tries
2009 22 games 9 tries
2010 23 games 3 tries
so in answer to your question,yes he has been a regular only missed rounds, 7,8,9 and 14.
cudjoe's stats are also very impressive
2008 16 games 4 tries 8 goals
2009 22 games 15 tries 19 goals
2010 25 games 22 tries 13 goals.
you cant help but think with a record like that he'd be in the England set up sooner had he played for one of the "popular teams"
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42169_1366443727.jpg Chorlton RL wrote- "Jonny, for me you hold the mantle of most sensible poster on the VT"
...............................................................................................................................................
Yed wrote: "He's like a Kevin Penny on steroids except he's good too"
...............................................................................................................................................
"What? What have I said now?" - Starbug 2013
...............................................................................................................................................:d7dc4b20b2c2dd7b76ac6eac29d5604e_42169.jpg |
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| I rate Lawrence, problem with Cudjoe is under the high ball. I'd take both though. Gleeson and Lawrence would be decent enough centres.
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| Quote: jonny the leyther "I rate Lawrence, problem with Cudjoe is under the high ball. I'd take both though. Gleeson and Lawrence would be decent enough centres.'"
99/100 Cudjoe is safe as houses under the high ball, he dropped one against Saints in a bad position (and I was surprised as he was), but I think that can be down to the fact he was just thinking about how he was going to celebrate his try if he had taken it cleanly.
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| Quote: Code13 "Look at the suggested teams on this forum. Its the same faces, or more importantly, some players are automatically dismissed because they dont play for the right club.'" It seems like all we do is dismiss players as not good enough.
Either its writing players off before they've had a chance as one poster did with brown, or deciding certain of our best club players have had their chance and shouldn't ever get picked again as we've lost a few games.
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42169_1366443727.jpg Chorlton RL wrote- "Jonny, for me you hold the mantle of most sensible poster on the VT"
...............................................................................................................................................
Yed wrote: "He's like a Kevin Penny on steroids except he's good too"
...............................................................................................................................................
"What? What have I said now?" - Starbug 2013
...............................................................................................................................................:d7dc4b20b2c2dd7b76ac6eac29d5604e_42169.jpg |
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| I always ask myself, would he be in the squad if he played for Saints/Leeds/Wigan. And with Cudjoe and Lawrence the answer is 'yes'. So they should play.
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