FORUMS > The Virtual Terrace > Which 2 Hookers should England take to Australia? |
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| Quote: Bruce_Forsyth "Someone out of James Roby, Daryll Clark and Michael Mcilorum will surely be left at home, so which one should it be?
I personally wouldn't take this 'Mickey Mac' bloke. I think Roby and Clark have proved themselves as the two best hookers in SL this season, plus the Wigan player is too much of a hot head and is always likely to do something stupid. No doubt the Aussies would look to wind him up, looking for a reaction.
The outstanding Roby with Clark as his understudy should be on the plane for me'"
I would take Roby and Mcilorum. I would choose Mcilorum over Clark at this stage of there careers as i think he just has that bit more about him.
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| I think McIlorum deserves a proper crack at the Aussies and Kiwis. The lad is a big game player and is consistently our best player when knock rugby comes around (along with O'Loughlin). His style suits test match rugby and he'd ruffle a few feathers. He physically (and legally) hurt people in the WCC game but was let down by some of those around him. He gave Warea-Hargreaves a proper going over in the second half and that's no easy task.
McIlorum to start with Roby on the bench for me.
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| Quote: GIANT DAZ "Roby and Clark for me , never rated Mcilorum, don't see what he offers apart from being a bit of a lover, besides the Aussies will know what to expect, Clark is a bit of an unknown to them in terms of playing against him. In fact i'd take Hodgson, Lunt, Houghton and Higham before Mcilorum !'"
Everyone has opinions but when you let hatred shine through like that opinions become worthless
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| I'm not sure where this idea that McIllorum is a master wind-up merchant comes from; Michael Ennis he is not. If anything, he's the one more likely to be targeted by a WUM and he's also the one most likely to react.
That said, I'd go for Roby as first choice all the live long day, with McIllorum to spell him; if you're taking 3, take Clark an all, but he's shown this season that he's not yet a big game player.
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| Quote: NickyKiss "I think McIlorum deserves a proper crack at the Aussies and Kiwis. The lad is a big game player and is consistently our best player when knock rugby comes around (along with O'Loughlin). His style suits test match rugby and he'd ruffle a few feathers. He physically (and legally) hurt people in the WCC game but was let down by some of those around him. He gave Warea-Hargreaves a proper going over in the second half and that's no easy task.
McIlorum to start with Roby on the bench for me.'"
He wouldn't ruffle any feathers. There's far were worse players for that in the NRL, McIlorum is a pussy compared to what they are used to.
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| I'd definitely take Clark as he's had a cracking season and he may find his feet and have that big game performance he's lacked so far.
It may be just me, but I think with his running and attacking ability Clark could also cover the half-backs and even the three-quarters if needed. He looks to me to have the potential for good utility value.
I'd say he's similar to Karl Pratt but ten times better if not more!
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| Quote: Father Ted "Roby and Clark depend on the quick ptb and scoot. '" It still gets my goat, this one.
In 2007, Roby won MoS as an impact hooker, rotating with Cunningham. That was 7 years ago.
Cunningham has retired and Roby is our only hooker. Yes, he is still a threat from dummy half when he gets a quick play, but that's something EVERY HOOKER SHOULD BE. On top of that he has great distribution, probably the best play selection of all the hookers, a kicking game, can make 40, 50, may 60+ tackles, makes very few errors or penalties, the list goes on. Its a long time since Roby had to rely on anything being set up for him.
I have mixed feelings on MM. I'd love to have a prop or back row at Saints with his attitude. He's obviously a decent hooker and does well for Wigan. I'm not going to claim that the Aussies will all of a sudden make him look like a pussy, that's obviously not going to happen.
I seem to remember him being a bit underwhelming in the England - Fiji game last year, that make's me a little worried about his peak ability outside of the Wigan set up. Wigan continue to be a club who's ability as a team seems to far outweigh the sum of its parts.
I can imaine them being our two hookers and it going quite well. I could also imagine the two of them being on the pitch together for large periods. The likely hood is that against Aus we'll need to work very hard in defence, scrambling some of the time. These two have the engines to hopefully make sure we can keep them from our line.
That said, I like some of the other hookers over MM, probably Lunt for me. Its a good position for us, though, so I don't imagine us taking a bad 9 in the squad.
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| Leaving aside slow PTBs and a lack of space in Test match rugby, Roby and Clark are stronger in the upper body and much better defenders than McIlorum. I wouldn't be surprised if McIlorum misses 2 or 3 times as many tackles as his rival hookers. Please let's not pick MM on the myth of him being the best defensive hooker around.
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| Quote: Colly2 "Leaving aside slow PTBs and a lack of space in Test match rugby, Roby and Clark are stronger in the upper body and much better defenders than McIlorum. I wouldn't be surprised if McIlorum misses 2 or 3 times as many tackles as his rival hookers. Please let's not pick MM on the myth of him being the best defensive hooker around.'"
Stats on the subject seem to back this up:
MM - attempted 408, missed 32 (~8% missed)
DC - attempted 725, missed 34 (~5% missed)
JR - attempted 1089, missed 35 (~3% missed)
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| On a slightly seperate issue... Do we actually need 2 hookers in the 17? Roby does 80 minutes every week so would having an extra forward on the bench or a utility back be a better option?
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| Quote: Charlie Sheen "On a slightly seperate issue... Do we actually need 2 hookers in the 17? Roby does 80 minutes every week so would having an extra forward on the bench or a utility back be a better option?'"
It probably doesn't matter. On McNamara's previous form he will probably just go with 16 men in the important games. Anyway, half the squad will have been sent home before we get to any games of interest.
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| Quote: EHW "Stats on the subject seem to back this up
theres no stat on how hard they hit though is there? and I would wager MM hits than the other 2.
He also leads by example in terms of aggression and line speed.
Ask Warea-Hargreaves if MM is a goog defender?
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| Quote: whiston_warrior "theres no stat on how hard they hit though is there? and I would wager MM hits than the other 2.
He also leads by example in terms of aggression and line speed.
Ask Warea-Hargreaves if MM is a goog defender?'"
Is his dad harder than theirs too?
No good being hard if you miss the man 8% of the time.
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| Quote: dubairl "I hope not!
id be happy to see widdop and smith as the half backs too. best option i suppose!
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| Roby & Lunt.
However, with Sinfield stepping aside & Burrow perhaps not available it's an even more important question.
I'd rather Roby played 80 minutes and had to do less defending. Better game control by England would certainly help that. Bigger forwards like George Burgess need to be able to play as long as any of their Aussie & Kiwi counterparts.
Hopefully another year's experience in the NRL will have addressed this.
The Kiwis beat us at Wembley by running at lads like Burgess late on in the game.
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