But that is the point, Leeds, St’s, Wigan etc aren’t building squads on players they are signing from elsewhere, there success is based on the players they are bringing through at Leeds its Mcguire, Sinfield, Burrow, Watkins, Hall, at Wigan its Tomkins, Farrell, MciLorum, Hansen, O’loughlin, at Saints its Roby, Lomax, Wellens, etc.

At the ‘big 3’ there is a grand total of 1 HKR or Cas developed players. Scott Taylor.

Players aren’t being picked off by the bigger clubs, HKR (especially) and Cas aren’t producing top class players and nowhere near the level of other clubs. The reason HKR and Cas can’t invest in their youngsters and grow to challenge isn’t because these youngsters are being bought off by the bigger clubs, its because they aren’t producing sufficient numbers, of sufficient quality. In fact there are more Leeds/Saints/Wigan youngsters playing for HKR/Cas than the other way around.

Your first reply was one of the thickest I've read on here in a long while and that's saying something. Your latest response doesn't even make sense. Good all round contribution well done.

The problem we have at Cas is the fact we have the constant poaching of players from Hull FC & Huddersfield, our team is manly made up of players from our academy, so it cant be that bad we have a player in Thompson brought through the system, only to be poached away by Hull FC, it wont be announced yet there waiting for his 23rd birthday, as it will be cheaper, just like they did with Arundel, last season.

We have a young player in Milner, who captain the academy against the Aussies, then we have Clark, a player who is constantly being linked with Warrington, Leeds, & other clubs, our pack is made up with other players from the academy , the forwards Hubby, Boyle, Holmes, Thompson, Massey, Walker, then Fleming, & Martin, just breaking through, Milner & Clark at hooker, in the backs we have Clare, Owen & Shenton, that's 13 players who have broke into the first team.

We have other youth players making there money at new clubs, there is more Cas lads in the Hull FC team, than there is Hull players, but there given a 2, it's rubbish.

This new document is nothing more than a twisted look at the RL's academy system, there isn't many clubs who provide RL with more players than Cas, we wont be that fare behind Leeds, Wigan, & Saints, when it comes to what counts, & that's bringing young local players through your academy to play in the SL, or the Championship, but looking at this document it seems to suit the RFL purpose better, when it comes to choosing the next 12 teams to feature in the 2015 SL, it makes you wonder who they use to comply all these great ideas, & why the top 12 wouldn't be the right way to go????.

Its ok for you as a Leeds fan as Leeds as a club have multiple income streams to finance the youth setup as well as spend to near enough the full cap. The likes of Hull KR and Cas don't. If players are leaving these clubs for more money then they are never going to get to the heights of Leeds and Wigan are they? If the likes of Cas and Hull KR can keep their own locally produced players then they will be competitive in SL. Yesterday Hull KR played 6 homegrown players in their team which in 5 years of having an academy is good going. Cas probably played even more than that. The whole point I'm trying to make is that as long as you are bringing players through, it doesn't matter whether they get the touchy feely bits on the way to becoming a first team SL player.

I for one am proud with the strides Hull KR are making on the youth front and it is a hell of a lot better than pre 2007. While I admit that the models at Leeds and Wigan are the ones to strive for, it takes a hell of a long time. If you are basing success and whether a team should be in SL on the academy and its graduates, then i'm afraid SL would have to go down to probably 5 teams.

Try stepping down from your ivory tower and look at things from other clubs supporters point of view.

Well done to us here in the Midlands

that didnt happen by magic. But hardwork and Skill Yet they have the funds to sign Neville Costigan, or Willie Mason, Rangi Chase, These players arent leaving for more money. They arent being produced. Hull KR and Cas Can keep their own locally produced players,This wont make them competitive in SL. It wont make them competitive in SL because they don’t put enough time, effort, money or skill into those players whilst they are in the academy. So the don’t produce the quality, or quantity of other clubs. no, it isnt. Its pretty p1sspoor to be honest, and the reasons why HKR are so poor at bringing home grown players through is highlighted in this report.
Having the right staff, and the right amount of them isn’t a touchy-feely bit. Having access to facilities which are good enough isn’t a touchy-feely bit. Hull KR's faillings in these areas are having an adverse effect on the players progression.
you shouldnt be. Hull KR's progress has got them to a stage where they are among the 2 worst in SL, where they youth development, lack of investment in it is having an adverse effect on the progression of the players with in it. That is a disgrace.
im not seeing a point of view. Im seeing excuses. Im seeing the same excuses from the same clubs we saw excuses from 5 years ago.

Sorry but to do down our youth system at cas is incredibly ignorant. It's the only thing keeping the club going ffs !!!! Not many clubs have the record we do over the last few years than us. In either quantity or standard we more than pull our weight.... Every side in SL would have Daz Clark starting 17.

A lot of your income streams wouldn't have been there if it wasn't for assets which you own. Hull KR and a lot of other clubs don't have that luxury.


What bit are you not getting? Clubs sign these players to be competitive. If you take away all the overseas signings Leeds have made over the years, do you really think they would be where they are now?


So Scott Taylor, Joe Arundel, Joe Westerman etc.. are figments of our imaginations?


In your opinion. There is no conclusive evidence of this at all.


Once again Smokey, its a matter of opinion. How many 1st team regulars has Leeds produced in the last 5 years?


And where is the evidence to back this up? Have you spoken to players who have been in our academy? Have you investigated and proved that this is the case?


According to the report. As I have said, Leeds and Wigan models are what every team should strive for but I don't think for one moment Hull KR would be in existence if they ploughed all their money into achieving those models quickly. They would be bottom of SL and support would just dwindle away.



You have basically just proved my point about you being in an ivory tower. Chucking money at an academy is not going to bring supporters in or keep the ones we have coming back. A competitive team is. A balance has been struck and I trust the club to do whats best for itself and its supporters.

again, those assets arent owned by magic nor those income streams. They exist because of hard-work and skill.
Delaney,Kylie and Moon? Yeah, pretty close.

Wigans 4th rotation prop, Hulls 3rd choice centre, and Joe Bloody Westerman. These players are average players. They have moved to a different club, thats all, its not evidence of some wide-scale pillaging, nor more than the fact Jordan Tansey players for Cas means Cas are stealing all Leeds youngsters, or that Craig Hall and Josh Hodgson playing for Hull KR are Hull KR stealing all of Hull's youngsters.

except the fact that neither Hull KR nor Cas have produced the quality of quantity of player needed to challenge (we know these players don't exist) and we know the reasons why, the RFL have kindly told us.

BJB, Hall, Watkins, Clarkson, McShane, Ward, Singleton, Sutcliffe, Ward,
the RFL have told us
Chucking money at an expensive academy took leeds from c7k crowds in 1996, to winning the league with a home-grown squad with crowds of c17k in 2004.

Not seeing the point of this. Nice facilities & education programs get you a higher rating than developing your own juniors into SL players? What are academies for?

Arundel is not yet 23, So its not the same.

I know a few lads who have come through at Leeds and a few who have fallen away for all sorts of reasons, i've yet to find one who has a bad word to say about the youth set up at Leeds.

One player in particular that left recieved all the help he needed from the coaches at the club, they went above and beyond to help sort him out.

So i agree with you 100%


On another note i believe Cas have been hard done to from what i know of the set up down the lane.

For me the proof of the pudding is in the eating - ie how many top class players or volume of at least SL standard players should be the main marker.

How many "Top Class" players have Cas & HKR produced over the last 5 years?

As for Wakey, I can't think of any (but the fact the Burgess brothers are all from Wakefield and the 3 trained over here came through Bradford & Leeds academies speaks volumes.)

No its because you had a knight in shining armour who came to your rescue so you didn't have to sell them. Other clubs weren't so lucky.

How about all the others over the time you've been in SL?


Again Smokey, we aren't talking about players that are world beater are we?


Again Smokey this is your opinion. Cas have produced the quality and quantity. Hull KR are starting to produce them,


So you've actually produced 5 or 6 first team regulars. Sutcliffe wouldn't even be in the first team if it wasn't for the mounting injury list.


At a time when there was no salary cap and having a very rich benefactor who financed it.

Leeds' owner has never subsidised the club. He is the only owner in the league who takes dividends out.