Irrelevant! He's won it - get over it. It's in the annals of history and no matter how much you bleat about it you can NEVER change that.

I'm going to throw a spanner into the works by reminding everyone that New Zealand are the current world champions.

5 of that NZ world cup winning side played in SL at some stage, Only Tommy Luelaui will likely be looked back on as a success. A player who, incidentally, left the NRL as a nobody and is going back a star. Not to mention that the coach of that success was someone who had never been head coach of an NRL side at that time, and was a complete flop when he was given a chance.

of the 2005 Tri-nations winning NZ side, 13 of 17 played in SL and their coach went on to coach in SL. Including 4 of the back 5, 3 of whom will likely be looked at as disappointments, with only Brent Webb arguably being a success.

Fylde_Warrior's response is going to be very interesting indeed now New Zealand and the super league connections have being bough into the debate.

I am sure you will enlighten me.

I do find the hysteria some users have where they think somebody is somebody else etc. I am me, no other user.

To be honest a visit to a doctor might be more appropriate for you

However, if you want to identify what you consider drivel then do elighten me in between when you hear voices and see imaginary people.

Just to summarise the key points;

For 50 years the Australians have been beating us. Our last great British RL national teams came in 1958-1962. We are a second rate RL nation. The worse thing we ever did was tried to pretend otherwise and even conceal the truth with an international transfer ban. 1982 was a watershed and some good RL people have tried since then to close the gap with some success BUT the gap remains and we remain a second rate RL nation because when we got the opportunity via the SL War / SKT TV / Summer RL we blew investing the money wisely with long term thinking blocked by self interest and short term thinking.

Briefly standards got better thanks largely to the input of Australian coaching ideas and some quality players arriving. Nothing wrong with learning from the best unless you are too proud, stubborn or stupid to do so. The Australian did exactly that in the 1950 /60's. Harry Bath et al saw Australia make remarkable progress through being receptive and open minded. Whatsmore others like Jack Gibson then took it even further by looking at other sports.

Unfortunately, some British people adopt a negative stance when the truth stares them in the face defeat after defeat. Ignorance is bliss for such people Smiley I daresay you would agree Worse, you get those in a position to bring about change such as some of the media resulting in the farcical decision to declare Kevin Sinfield to be the best RL player in the world in 2012. Only they know their motives but we can speculate.

Just like 1982 we have reached a watershed. Finances have never been tighter, short term self interest has now led to a country still dependent upon overseas players / coaches to advance the sport. Alas the exchange rate, the now widening salary cap differential, rugby union now being the predator rather than the prey to take quality players and outstanding coaches means we have never been shorter in terms of quality and the second rate RL we view is getting worse not better. The gains achieved in closing the gap are likely to be reversed BUT hey we can pretend. Afterall ignorance is bliss just ask Smokey, Printer, Sadler et al. Leeds our best RL team in SL would struggle to win a quarter of their games if they played in the NRL. That is reality. You see many British people are afraid to be exposed to the harsh reality. Far better to pretend in Smokey world where he hears voices and sees imaginary people.

British RL is second rate and KS is not and never has been the best player in the world. Oh less we forget Smokey hears voices and sees other people in his head

Im not going to bother. You are either a troll or an idiot. Either way, its not my job to enlighten you, a simple google search would have set you straight.

Fylde_Warrior, your insistence to dismiss Super League as second rate isn't doing your argument any favors and it's time you moved on from banging that drum. If the competition is so second rate then how come Alfie Langer got chosen to play for Queensland whilst playing in Super League? He was a good player in a second rate (your words - certainly not mine) competition was he?

Andrew Johns was a load of rubbish when he played in Super League

We've already established in this thread that great players can be on the losing side like Cameron Smith was in the second state of origin match last year. Your 'Kevin Sinfield can't be given the golden boot because he plays in super league' argument has too many holes in it.

Jamie Lyon was fantastic in Super League but in the NRL he's done better. Surely no one can recover from the mediocrity that is Super League and then go on to be awarded the Dally M Centre of the Year in both 2010 and 2011?

If Kevin Sinfield played in the NRL then I've no doubt that he'd won more recognition for his talent by now. One of the main points of your arguments is that Kevin Sinfield hasn't and didn't play in the NRL so your building this fantasy where Kevin Sinfield can't be recognized as the best player in the world because of where he plays his rugby. Whilst Kevin Sinfield hasn't played in the NRL, we can make a good guest of how he'd fair out there with other English players who've made a go of it in the NRL and still we'd be in your fantasy world where individuals only perform world class at one end of the globe but not the other

Lets get back to the world club challenge. A relative of mine bumped into some very dejected Manly Sea Eagles players at a Leeds city bar after last years world club challenge and it wasn't having to come over to England they weren't happy about either. Some Australian journalist might want to mock the WCC but it's a very real contest with money to be won and I don't think you'll find any newspaper articles anywhere with players mocking this contest. It's only people like you and journalist with an agenda - well if League Publications have are allowed to have an agenda then surely other journalist are allowed this same right as well?

I've got more arguments up my sleeve but I'd like to see your response to these first!

Damo, SL is a second rate competition. Second rate does not mean fans cannot enjoy it. Far from it. Players can actually gain from playing in a second rate SL for a season or two because they have the time/room to develop different skills and/or allow their bodies to recover from the harder grounds and extra physical damage resulting from more intense sporting contests. Players can benefit as a person by broadening their experience of life and travel to become more rounded individuals.

However, a coach or player that stays in a second rate inferior competition stagnates and declines after 3 seasons here maximum. Change in British RL / SL lags behind the NRL so we are literally waiting for the next NRL playing development to try to immitate.

Ironically, the Australians actually once copied British RL. Typically British RL talks about the great attacking prowess of our legendary 58-62 teams BUT the key to our superiority was very often how defensive techniques. The way we strangled and stifled othert nations defensively. Most people from Britain of your age and younger Damo cannot comprehend or imagine a time when British RL were the defensive masters, the leader in the dark arts of RL. The teacher! not the student of RL.

My argument standfs true and you mistakenly reinforced it Damo. Joey, Alfie were developed by Australian coaching and came here to stroll majestically through our game even at the end of his career for Alfie. Likewise Lyon was already special before he came to Britain.

Our best players walked the walk and went to the NRL where they learned far more. Ellery, Schoey won the GB after doing it in the NRL first. Later Faz and KS were given the award undeservedly. You see therein lies the difference between an objective fan like myself. I supportand watched Faz all his career in RL. Fantastic player, Wigan legend but never the best player in the world. Leeds fans seem to struggle dealing with the idea that you can think KS is a fantastic player, a legend BUT not the best player in the world.

You need to understand sportsmen / women. Nobody takes to the pitch and wants to lose. Every player hates losing. However, if you had asked those Manly players how important the WCC was to them you would have got an answer far less than several other contests on their calendar. You will get some who are PC until the last time they pull on a boots.

So sorry Damo, any British RL player who confines himself to SL cannot claim to be the worlds best player UNTIL SL is the best or as near damn it the best competition in the world. Sadly, British RL / SL is some way from achieving that and recent changing circumstances may make it even less likely.