Wish I had a quid for every time someone uttered that tired and inaccurate mantra of [i'Our big lads can outmuscle theirs'[/i. I've yet to see it happen.

Hardaker isn't in the England squad and rightly so. He's played like a basket-case all season long and looked way out of his depth during his stint in the NRL.

I tend to agree, I reckon our pack, at best, can match there's, but I'm we last the dynamism they have particularly in the back row.

The halves aren't even worth discussing and our backs again I think can just about match their Oz counterparts, maybe winning the odd one on one if we can manufacture the opportunity, and if they are in form. Problem is most of them aren't.

Having said that, think we can beat the kiwis, who are mentally weak. Our chances against Oz are weaker, and will continue to be so until we solve the seemingly never ending problem of 6 and 7. Until then I feel even our best will end in a courageous defeat. But here's hoping I'm wrong.

We've got a 7 coming into the team who has just made a record number of assists in a SL season (looking back through the stats that are available) and has won the Goldthorpe Medal for the last two years.
He might not do well at international level, but let's at least give him a chance before deciding he's not good enough.

Williams also looks better than he did last year. Widdop is still a regular half in the NRL, though his form has not been good this year.

I'd be going with Williams and Gale at 6 and 7. If Gale can combine with Lomax as well as he does with Luke Dorn (who has similar attributes) he stands a chance of causing problems. He might not, but I don't think we can make a judgement before he has set foot on the field!

I'd agree with that. England's forwards can match theirs at their best BUT... and this is the key point... even at their best they only match their forwards for part of the game. More often than not, it's the final 10 minutes of the first half and the last quarter of the game where a lot of England's forwards go missing, regularly drop off tackles and spend time blowing with hands resting on hips. That's when the Aussies start running riot and scoring tries for fun.

The myth of the English forwards being better (or matching) the Aussie forwards is exactly that... a MYTH.


Kiwis seem to lack discipline way too often but on their day, they are unbeatable. Our record against them during the SL era is skewed somewhat because we hardly ever play them in New Zealand. I think we've played them only 5 times in 20 years there. We lost every one of those encounters.

I honestly don't see Gale playing. Williams and Widdop would be who I think the coach picks.

Not sure pointing out Gales try assist's helps him. He was playing in a team which was him or bust in attack. An England team cannot be one player or bust. There needs to be a real structure to which players fit into. Williams has shown he can fit into a system when needed, and play his own way when the time calls for it. Widdop will be the structured one I believe.

Good luck to him if he does play, but I think he is a squad member at the moment.

I see your point, but Luke Dorn also made 21 assists so clearly everything didn't go through Gale.
I'm biased as I watch Gale every week. However, the fact he has won the Goldthorpe Medal for the last two years and has been selected in the dream team for the last two years suggests it is not just my bias that makes me think he deserves a shot.
It's hard to compare Williams and Gale to Widdop, as he plays in a much more demanding competition where defences are far stronger.
I can't honestly see how Williams can be selected ahead of Gale if Bennet decides Widdop is playing in the halves. However, I'm sure Wigan supporters would argue otherwise as they watch Williams every week!

Don't get me wrong, I think Gale deserves a chance, but I also think Widdop is dull as dishwater and Williams is still not the all round player we need at test level yet. Our halves are so far behind its laughable, no matter what combination we put out.

I take your point about fitness/concentration etc and would add it's not just the forwards that suffer from this, as well as the fact it is likely to be made worse depending on the number of subs we play in internationals. (That sentence sounds so stupid but unfortunately it's true).

It's also a sad indication of our game that we've only played NZ etc as many times as wehave. There's faults on both sides of the world when it comes to that but in terms of England I think the only way we can close the gap is by playing the best regularity, same goes in relative terms of difficulty for the lesser nations.

I am actually quite excited by some of the young players coming through but unless they are exposed to a higher level of competition and coaching, with the odd exception (Think of recent SL exceptions like Hall) they will be found wanting.

Gale prefers to ply his trade over here, against fair weather opposition. Your opinion is thankfully, meaningless.

Oh here he is, it must be international season again. Has he mentioned that he's watched RL live in Australia yet?

William, you forgot to mention that England are coming off a series win against NZ and the last time we played the super duper Aussies they were very, very lucky to get the win. But mentioning those just wouldn't fit in with your sad, pathetic life long agenda on these boards would it?

Yes, this. I just hope Bennett does give Gale the shot; he deserves it.

Sam Burgess and James Graham would get into the Aussie or New Zealand side. I'm not sure anybody else would, George Burgess maybe when he's on form.

and some might say that yours is too, which is particularly sad as it's a forum for discussion

Gale is great for Cas, but no Wayne Bennett coached team is gonna play like Cas.

Hope Issac Luke is banned, that was nasty.

IMO at the end of the day whether we win or lose is all down to 1-7. Our forwards can match theirs, both in terms of pace, power and skill. We can get into try-scoring situations, but time after time our half-backs and outside backs just don't deliver. When the pressure's on and there are 10mins left to win a test match, who's your money on - Widdop and Williams or Thurston and Cronk?

Hopefully, now there's a fully fit Hodgson at 9 we might be able to cause them a few more problems. In Super League, the players have to cope with close games and real pressure a handful of times a season. In the NRL it's probably 4/5 times that, if not more when you take into account Origin. This is where Bennett comes in and hopefully his experience and guidance can hopefully get our back line switched on and get the team over the finishing line.