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Does anyone else think that our players freeze on big occasions? I think that the u21 and academy teams would benefit if they played in front of bigger crowds, so maybe it would be good if Englands youngsters played warm ups to big games like Wigan v Saints, Leeds-Bradford, the Hull derby etc.

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before everyone throws the baby out with the bathwater.....lets just remember that this was probably our 3rd choice team that we sent down under.......and they only lost by 10 to the world champions and australia could only score 18 legitimate points against us..to our 14point.....

its not all bad imo.....what do we need to do to improve??

1, a 2 game series against the Other nationalities...and have a England 'A' team play france & wales

2, send the whole of the england academy team to the NRL clubs to play in their NYC

3, sack McNamara......taking burgess & graham off after just 20mins while leading 8-6....when they came back on it was 26-8.....erm.....pack ya bags ya clown...

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Quote: roughyedspud "before everyone throws the baby out with the bathwater.....lets just remember that this was probably our 3rd choice team that we sent down under.'"


Really?

There were probably four players missing who would have been dead set selections for England's first choice 17 had they been available - Peacock, Morley, Eastmond and maybe Hall.

Hardly a third choice line up.

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Quote: Andy Gilder "Really?

There were probably four players missing who would have been dead set selections for England's first choice 17 had they been available - Peacock, Morley, Eastmond and maybe Hall.

Hardly a third choice line up.'"


Hall was available, he just wasnt selected.

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'There's only one code of rugby.':



Well, where do we start...

The RFL have to start taking the international scene more seriously
More players need to go out to Oz and learn from the best
Sack Steve Mac and replace him with a decent f'in coach and backroom staff who can pick a decent squad. The guy got released/fired by Bradford yet we give him the England job? Absolute genius move.
Reduce the overseas quota to 3 so only the very best imports come over

This one's a bit drastic but how about...
Scrap the 4 nations and go back to Great Britain with an Ashes test series every 4 years and a Kiwi series every two. Switching to an England team has basically crippled our chances of winning any international competitions because the strength in depth simply isn't there...

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Fund jnr RL to the tune of 20million pounds a year, double the number of jnrs playing RL in England, increase revenue at SL clubs to 8million pounds. Then we would be where Australia are at today. Your living in cloud cuckoo land. RL in Australia has become massive, the game in England is simply not big enough to keep pace. In fact given the disaprity in money in the two leagues it is amazing we are anywhere near them.

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OLDHAM RLFC RUGBY LEAGUE CHAMPIONSHIP WINNERS: 1904-05 1909-10, 1910-11, 1956-57 Runners Up: 1906-07, 1907-08, 1908-09, 1921-22, 1954-55 FIRST DIVISION CHAMPIONS: 1904-05 RUGBY LEAGUE CHALLENGE CUP WINNERS: 1899, 1925, 1927 Runners Up: 1907, 1912, 1924, 1926 LANCASHIRE CUP WINNERS: 1906–07, 1909–10, 1912–13, 1918–19, 1923–24, 1932–33, 1955–56, 1956–57, 1957–58 Runners Up: 1897–98, 1900–01, 1907–08, 1909–10, 1921–22, 1956–57, 1957–58 LANCASHIRE LEAGUE CHAMPIONS: 1897-98, 1900-01, 1907-08, 1909-10, 1921-22, 1956-57, 1957-58 Runners Up: 1895-96, 1896-97, 1898-99, 1899-1900, 1908-09, 1910-11, 1911-12, 1923-24, 1954-55 SECOND DIVISION CHAMPIONS: 1963-64, 1981-82, 1987-88 SECOND / DIVISIONAL PREMIERSHIP WINNERS: 1988, 1990 Runners Up: 1992 NORTHERN FORD PREMERSHIP Runners up : 2001 NATIONAL LEAGUE TWO/CHAMPIONSHIP 1 Play off final runners up: 2007,2008,2009,2010:14417.gif



Quote: Madderzahatter " Switching to an England team has basically crippled our chances of winning any international competitions because the strength in depth simply isn't there...'"



but it will still be the same 17 englishmen whether we're england or GB icon_frustrated.gif

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Quote: Code13 "I remember in the 90s when we had a 3 division league, just before SL started. 2nd div had just 8 teams, to build the intensity needed for the step up..


It failed utterly. So the "fewer teams, more intensity" is crap. Look at the SPL. What really happens is two teams walk it by miles, followed by the make weights.


And just to stir it a bit more, the last time we beat the Aussies, we had no P&R and we had just one league that all teams played in.'"


Hmmm... Some good points there.

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//www.pngnrlbid.com [quote="bUsTiNyAbALLs":9q9d2t35]Do not converse with me you filthy minded deviant.[/quote:9q9d2t35] [quote="vastman":9q9d2t35]My rage isn't impotent luv, I'm frothing at the mouth actually.[/quote:9q9d2t35]:



Quote: The Chair Maker "Its about all the clubs in SL putting the resources in to develop the next generation of young talent.

Most professional RL clubs pay lip service to developing juniors.

I think St.Helens are an example of a club doing something right on the junior front. For a small town Saints develop a lot of high calibre youngsters.

You would expect that other RL clubs with far larger catchment areas would have far more talent at their disposal. Yet strangely they dont.

The players are out there, they just need to be identified from a young age, then developed to their potential.'"

This isnt a criticism of St's they do a relatively good job.

But thats all it is, relatively good, the fact that Saints, Leeds, Wigan and Hull have the best academies] doesnt mean they are 'good' academies. We have clubs who simply pay lip service to junior development, clubs with very strong amateur areas who bring through few youngsters, and those that do rarely fulfil their potential, ill come back to this in a short while.

The argument about needing a comparable series to origin is nonsense, the Aussies arent better because they play 3 origin games a year. It also forgets that the Kiwis have nothing like it and they do alright.

We have four problems to overcome,

firstly, Coaching. we dont have coaches of the same quality, we need to make them, we need to innovating not playing catch up. Also just the effort we put into coaching the basics. It is criminal that Warrington couldnt coach Kevin Penny how to catch. There is debate on the leeds board about whether Kallum Watkins will 'make it' there shouldnt be, he has all the natural attributes to make a world class player, it should be a given we can coach him defensive position and decision making.

secondly Sports science, the game barely touches the surface of player preparation and athletic improvement. Here is an opportunity for us to invest and be at the forefront of an area which will help us close the gap with the players we have right now, we need to be doing this not only at international level but at club level.

thirdly Player pool. It is too small. We need to clubs to be unearthing every potential player possible, looking at every sprinter, every wrestler, weightlifter, basketball player, etc, It is very rare that an athlete can make a career out of these sports, and rarer still that they can make a living out of it in the way they can at RL. We also need more clubs, in more areas, not just at SL level but at NL level and Amateur level because we need more players. Every county level athletics meet should over-flowing with RL scouts. Then we can use our superior Coaching and Sports Science to make them RL players.

lastly mentality. We have got a mental hurdle to overcome before we can win. This should be easy to change, but its something that we shouldnt really have allowed ourselves to develop. I would like to see an under 16's, U18's, and U21's go to Australia every year for a 3 month tour, playing and learning how to beat, and then experiencing beating Australian club and respective national sides. So that when they move up to the full-squad they know what its like to win regularly against Australian players.

We are playing catch up, and we need to stop simply doing a poor impression of Australia and start innovating ourselves and put in place a structure where clubs are not only forced to do the minimum in terms of creating quality RL players, but rewarded for doing so.

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Quote: SmokeyTA "
thirdly Player pool. It is too small. We need to clubs to be unearthing every potential player possible, looking at every sprinter, every wrestler, weightlifter, basketball player, etc, It is very rare that an athlete can make a career out of these sports, and rarer still that they can make a living out of it in the way they can at RL. We also need more clubs, in more areas, not just at SL level but at NL level and Amateur level because we need more players. Every county level athletics meet should over-flowing with RL scouts. Then we can use our superior Coaching and Sports Science to make them RL players.
'"


You keep hitting on this one Smokey, as if there is a massive pool of top level athletes in these other sports, that aren't playing rugby at all so can't be found.
The guys playing these sports, if they have an aptitude for rugby, are almost certainly playing it.
As an example, of the players we've recently got into pro academies or trials, along with playing rugby, we had players who also did: Hockey, Athletics (200m sprinter) , trampolining, power lifting, and judo.
They were all spotted because of playing rugby, not those other sports. I don't believe there is this pool out there of kids playing other sports and never thinking of rugby, who are going to be superior athletes.

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Quote: SmokeyTA "This isnt a criticism of St's they do a relatively good job.

But thats all it is, relatively good, the fact that Saints, Leeds, Wigan and Hull have the best academies] doesnt mean they are 'good' academies. We have clubs who simply pay lip service to junior development, clubs with very strong amateur areas who bring through few youngsters, and those that do rarely fulfil their potential, ill come back to this in a short while.

The argument about needing a comparable series to origin is nonsense, the Aussies arent better because they play 3 origin games a year. It also forgets that the Kiwis have nothing like it and they do alright.

We have four problems to overcome,

firstly, Coaching. we dont have coaches of the same quality, we need to make them, we need to innovating not playing catch up. Also just the effort we put into coaching the basics. It is criminal that Warrington couldnt coach Kevin Penny how to catch. There is debate on the leeds board about whether Kallum Watkins will 'make it' there shouldnt be, he has all the natural attributes to make a world class player, it should be a given we can coach him defensive position and decision making.

secondly Sports science, the game barely touches the surface of player preparation and athletic improvement. Here is an opportunity for us to invest and be at the forefront of an area which will help us close the gap with the players we have right now, we need to be doing this not only at international level but at club level.

thirdly Player pool. It is too small. We need to clubs to be unearthing every potential player possible, looking at every sprinter, every wrestler, weightlifter, basketball player, etc, It is very rare that an athlete can make a career out of these sports, and rarer still that they can make a living out of it in the way they can at RL. We also need more clubs, in more areas, not just at SL level but at NL level and Amateur level because we need more players. Every county level athletics meet should over-flowing with RL scouts. Then we can use our superior Coaching and Sports Science to make them RL players.

lastly mentality. We have got a mental hurdle to overcome before we can win. This should be easy to change, but its something that we shouldnt really have allowed ourselves to develop. I would like to see an under 16's, U18's, and U21's go to Australia every year for a 3 month tour, playing and learning how to beat, and then experiencing beating Australian club and respective national sides. So that when they move up to the full-squad they know what its like to win regularly against Australian players.

We are playing catch up, and we need to stop simply doing a poor impression of Australia and start innovating ourselves and put in place a structure where clubs are not only forced to do the minimum in terms of creating quality RL players, but rewarded for doing so.'"


eusa_clap.gif

Spot on and this is what I was trying to get at in my opening post. There is so much that the clubs, and the RFL, can do now to narrow the gap. Things like getting rid of qouta players or calling for more representative games only play lip service to the problem and in my opinion will not solve anything in themselves. They do not get rid of the fundamental flaws in the way that the game is run in the country from amateur level to many professional clubs. Expanding our player pool is great but will take time, money and effort and in the meantime I firmly believe that there is an awful lot that can be done to make our existing player poor better.

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Quote: Richie "You keep hitting on this one Smokey, as if there is a massive pool of top level athletes in these other sports, that aren't playing rugby at all so can't be found.
The guys playing these sports, if they have an aptitude for rugby, are almost certainly playing it.
As an example, of the players we've recently got into pro academies or trials, along with playing rugby, we had players who also didI dont believe they are playing RL. In fact, I have no idea why they would be right now. People in large swathes of the country barely acknowledge RL's existance, why would we expect that they are actually going out and trying it.

You go even to somewhere as close as Liverpool or Manchester and RL merits barely a mention, these places are full of athletes who could be suited to our game, or have a base athletic ability we should be able to develop in to something, but if they have never heard of the game, or dont really know anything about it what are the chances that firstly they are going to go out and try and secondly that their raw talent would be identified?

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Quote: haven4ever "easy reduce the number of over seasplayer s in SL to nil, no ifs, no buts, no work arounds

until this is done the development of young players will be nowhere near what it should be to compete

also nuetral refs will help'"


Our biggest problem is in the factors mentioned by famous above particularly coaching and development work. Reducing the number of overseas players isn't suddenly going to make any of those things better.

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Quote: SmokeyTA "I dont believe they are playing RL. In fact, I have no idea why they would be right now. People in large swathes of the country barely acknowledge RL's existance, why would we expect that they are actually going out and trying it.

You go even to somewhere as close as Liverpool or Manchester and RL merits barely a mention, these places are full of athletes who could be suited to our game, or have a base athletic ability we should be able to develop in to something, but if they have never heard of the game, or dont really know anything about it what are the chances that firstly they are going to go out and try and secondly that their raw talent would be identified?'"


I never said they were playing RL icon_confused.gif

If you're in Manchester or Liverpool, it's likely they're playing a different sport that seems quite willing to throw money at athletes who wouldn't even make decent amateurs in most other sports.

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//www.pngnrlbid.com [quote="bUsTiNyAbALLs":9q9d2t35]Do not converse with me you filthy minded deviant.[/quote:9q9d2t35] [quote="vastman":9q9d2t35]My rage isn't impotent luv, I'm frothing at the mouth actually.[/quote:9q9d2t35]:



Quote: McClennan "Our biggest problem is in the factors mentioned by famous above particularly coaching and development work. Reducing the number of overseas players isn't suddenly going to make any of those things better.'"

it will however force clubs to rely on their own coaching and development rather than the NRLs. Which should force the clubs to improve in these aspects if they want to be successful.

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     Mens Super League XXVIII-R27
15:00
Hull FC
v
Catalans
       Championship 2024-R27
18:00
Featherstone
v
Dewsbury
18:00
Widnes
v
Toulouse
19:30
Wakefield
v
Barrow
 Sun 22nd Sep
       Championship 2024-R27
15:00
Batley
v
Swinton
15:00
Halifax
v
Bradford
15:00
Swinton
v
Doncaster
       League One 2024-R24
15:00
Hunslet
v
Midlands
15:00
Keighley
v
Rochdale
 Sat 28th Sep
       Championship 2024-R28
17:00
Toulouse
v
Batley
 Sun 29th Sep
       Championship 2024-R28
15:00
Barrow
v
Widnes
15:00
Bradford
v
Swinton
ALL SCORES PROVIDED BY RLFANS.COM (SETTINGS)
Matches on TV
Thu 19th Sep
SL
20:00
Huddersfield-Castleford
SL
20:00
Wigan-Salford
Fri 20th Sep
SL
20:00
Hull KR-Leeds
SL
20:00
Leigh-St.Helens
SL
20:00
Warrington-LondonB
Sat 21st Sep
SL
15:00
Hull FC-Catalans
Sun 27th Oct
MINT2024
14:30
England M-Samoa M
Sat 2nd Nov
MINT2024
14:30
England M-Samoa M
Sun 15th Sep
WSL2024 14 FeatherstoneW6-32York V
WSL2024 14 Hudds W36-0Wire W
CH 26 Barrow34-14Whitehaven
CH 26 Bradford16-14Batley
CH 26 Dewsbury16-28Swinton
CH 26 Doncaster30-14Widnes
CH 26 Featherstone6-20Sheffield
CH 26 Wakefield20-4York
NRL 28 Canterbury22-24Manly
L1 23 Midlands24-22Workington
L1 23 Rochdale30-18Hunslet
Sat 14th Sep
SL 26 Hull FC4-58Salford
SL 26 Catalans12-8LondonB
SL 26 Huddersfield0-66Warrington
CH 26 Toulouse38-18Halifax
NRL 28 Melbourne37-10Cronulla
NRL 28 NQL Cowboys28-16Newcastle
Fri 13th Sep
SL 26 Leigh0-24Hull KR
SL 26 St.Helens40-4Castleford
SL 26 Wigan38-0Leeds
This is an inplay table and live positions can change.
Mens Betfred Super League XXVIII ROUND : 1
 PLDFADIFFPTS
Wigan 26 657 336 321 42
Hull KR 26 693 311 382 40
Warrington 26 684 319 365 38
Salford 26 550 483 67 32
St.Helens 26 584 370 214 30
Leigh 26 548 386 162 29
 
Leeds 26 514 462 52 28
Catalans 26 451 423 28 28
Huddersfield 26 434 648 -214 18
Castleford 26 415 701 -286 15
LondonB 26 317 862 -545 6
Hull FC 26 324 870 -546 6
This is an inplay table and live positions can change.
Betfred Championship 2024 ROUND : 1
 PLDFADIFFPTS
Wakefield 24 892 256 636 46
Bradford 24 618 373 245 32
Toulouse 23 662 340 322 31
Sheffield 24 594 472 122 28
Widnes 24 513 433 80 27
York 25 613 439 174 26
 
Featherstone 24 566 472 94 26
Doncaster 24 470 527 -57 23
Batley 24 378 513 -135 20
Halifax 24 475 617 -142 20
Barrow 23 418 648 -230 19
Swinton 24 446 606 -160 18
Whitehaven 24 414 806 -392 16
Dewsbury 25 308 821 -513 2
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