“ What's needed to get you to understand the reality of the situation is for Wakefield to get relegated whilst TWP stay up........ ”

Part of the problem with this debate is that all the perceived negatives of TW seem to boil down to this - that they might succeed at the expense of a “heartlands” club. This is the fault of the system we have for deciding who should be in SL. It’s not the fault of TW.
London were relegated last season because they came bottom of SL. But they were competitive and capable of beating any other team on the day. London staying in SL, with TW coming up, would have expanded the league without watering down the quality. It was stupid to relegate them.
The point I’m making is this - no one knows what TW will bring to the game in 5, 10, 20 years time. They might be a disaster or they might be the best thing that’s ever happened to the game. But, they have to be a positive part of the expansion and development of the game. The P&R system shouldn’t force a situation where a team like TW (which might have folded this time next year) or New York or RSB come in to SL at the expense of a heartlands club that finishes bottom one season but is otherwise perfectly viable and competitive. If we keep doing that the game will contract and eventually cease to exist.
P &R is fine but it needs to be more nuanced. London, I believe, were capable of creating a strong presence in SL - surely we all agree that would be a good thing - but they never got the chance. They’ve been set back years and may never, ever get the chance again. A massive loss for the game.....but not Toronto’s fault.

So, NONE, other than the fantasy in your head.

by the sounds of it the devil has bought your soul, so you'll be happy then for our club to become a feeder to the rich elite in other countries

Its a long term thing.. or were you expecting them to turn up with a youth team full of rugby league players out of their backside?

Not at all, I just think it's for the good of the game to expand where we can. The rewards for the game of RL if it goes well are potentially unreal if we can get a foothold in NA & the risk is minimal. Also in the modern world, you need people with money and connections in the game - look at how far RU has surpassed us in 15 years. We need to try these things out if we are serious about growing the game.

No, but I wasn't expecting them to bunce the cap on a squad of 23, a couple on astronomical salaries and the remainder on silly money, and then to bleat about being "special" and needing dispensation, calling other SL clubs naieve and generally thinking opening a cheque book was the answer to everything.

Worship at the alter of TWP if you want, the courtship was brief, the engagement was gone in a heartbeat, the marriage is done and the honeymoon will be over soon, the divorce will be ugly, lets just hope SL isn't taken down by the fallings out between the inlaws.

Why are you oblivious to what Eric Perez and David Argylle actually said they would bring to the table here with TWP? They said they would produce quality players quickly by grid iron player conversions and get a big NATV deal once in Superleague they would share with other clubs.

They launched the club not you....... For TWP McDermott came out recently to say that there'd be no players or TV money.

So they set their own target for growth, and admitted themselves that they had not met either. So why not accept that, why make up a load of rubbish?

if we got relegated do you actually think we could survive in the championship and have a chance to get back up, we would end up part time and then we would be a feeder club

Yup, we need ALL SL clubs to adopt the Saracens model (which is pretty much what Toronto are seeking permission to do!)

That's not true. Everyone knows that if they aren't setting up a player development system which they aren't, then they will never develop North American Players.

Equally Mr. Perez said North America won't get a RL TV deal unless there are five North American clubs in Superleague. You can't have five North American clubs in Superleague all taking players from here because that will destroy clubs here and destroy the TV deal here that needs nine English clubs.

We know exactly what the business plan was and we know that it hasn't worked out after 4 years. Not a cent from NATV not a single decent NA pro-player. The business plan has failed - why do you think we should go on for another 20 years with it???

Same question to Danny Lockwood and Martyn Sadler.....

Since when was promoting TWP and demoting London Broncos "expansion"?

Perez's own definition of TWP's expansion was to provide additional SL quality players to the game and more TV money.

They did neither. There is no beneficial "expansion" only a detrimental expansion of travelling costs inc. accommodation costs?

Why don't you get this? Why doesn't Danny Lockwood or Martyn Sadler get this?

Because an all expenses paid trip to Leigh isn't as attractive as a similar trip to Toronto?

Same reason as Schofield has shot his mouth off again, they write what sells, not necessarily any basis in fact.

Well, if that were the case rl would only lose a couple thousand fans that would no longer rattle around that dump of a ground anymore. It hurts but that's reality also.

I just think long term for RL to overcome some pretty existential, critical issues and stay relevant then we need to do what we can to bring money into the game and expand our footprint. I'm prepared to give Toronto a chance to do it, you aren't. Lets see how they go - I expect they are about to get a bit of an eye opener trying to complete a SL season with 23 players