So you would prefer the game in the Northern hemisphere to stay the way it is and continue to decline?

Eventually there needs to be a circuit breaker and you have people wanting to invest their money into the game.

The worst decision in the world would be to turn them away.

What you don't get is, is that their is no decimation. Who has been decimated from the inclusion Toronto? The English playing stocks have barely been affected by Toronto using 10+ players. It's just another argument that has no foundation.

I also think that the perception of Super league being ''our league'' is wrong and needs to change for the betterment of the game. Example 1 with some super league teams not wanting to travel to France because they may have crowds.

Super league is no longer an English competition, It's just that It's based from England.

Do you have some kind of link to the Sky deal being "pulled" if there were ever more than 3 overseas clubs in SL or is this another one of your "certainties".
As for the other N. American clubs, I kind of agree with you.
There needs to be a plan and plenty of thought given, as to what kind of future is best for the sport, whereas at the moment it's all "suck it and see", which is bloody ridiculous for any professional sport.
It's time for SL to show it's hand and for them to explain their "vision" for the future.

As for the Championship being the place for the N. .American game to "sort itself out", what about the English clubs in that competition ?
Many of the players are part time and clubs have struggled to cope with 2 overseas clubs. How on earth would they cope with 4/5 ? It's a non starter.

What is a little strange here and accepting that the game is at a much lower level than The Championship, is that there is a domestic RL competition already in parts of the states.
It's the gap in quality just too significant for that comp to be built on and expanded or was there some politics preventing this ?

So you think it’s ok for a team like Toronto to play in our league even if it costs a fortune to get their for our fans and players it is nuts

Please read properly what I write when quoting my post before you put your interpretation on it, I did not say there would be decimation in super league with the inclusion of Toronto, they have now been accepted and form part of sl until if/when they get relegated, nobody is arguing about the 10 or so over priced Brits/Aus players they have, but if people like yourself under the banner of expansionism get your wish and include all the north American teams being thrown into the mix and then add all the players they'll need then that's where super league will get decimated. The Northern Hemisphere you talk about covers a great expanse, as Canada and the USA are the 2nd and 3rd biggest countries in the world respectively, surely you would think that if the interest is there they would be big enough to stand on their own two feet with a bit of help and some of our alleged expertise, or can't you understand that concept.

Catalans are an established super league club and have been for the past 14 seasons, the Catalans game is one of the first fixtures a lot of fans look for when they come out, most clubs do the round trip in a day to save money and just accept it, you could argue that the English clubs take quite a few fans to France whereas it's affordable to go once a season, unlike the French who probably couldn't afford the expense of regular visits will select the game of their choice, other than that I'm not sure what you mean by they may have crowds.

Not sure I know the politics of it all but isn't it called super league Europe?

Another ludicrous reason why Toronto shouldn't be in super league.

No one is forcing you to pay to go to Canada unless you think that It's your right to be able to attend every home and away game. If that's the case then rl wouldn't spread more than a few towns. It's an incredibly selfish thought to have that if you couldn't attend that one game a year, you would deny thousands of others the opportunity to become fans of the game.

On your other point, It's been well documented that it doesn't cost the players anything.

I dont think that TWP are going to cover the cost of visiting clubs for too much longer. Does their "deal" not stop at the end of this season ?
And could you explain the rationale behind planting new clubs in N .America, to the detriment of existing clubs in the UK (assuming that the league will not be expanded).

Ultimately, we will swap a new untried/untested club for clubs with a long history in the sport and more importantly, with far reaching community work, which would diminish significantly if they were forced to ply their trade in the Championship.
This would also add substantial costs to an already cash strapped sport, which is a pretty bizarre "plan".

As for fans not having a "right" to attend every game, of course you are correct.
However, they do have a right to spend their brass how they chose and if RL makes it impossible to attend games and support their club, they may just choose to spend their hard earned somewhere else.

For most of us, attending games is a habit and if enough fans start to get out of the habit of attending games, already made harder by ever changing fixtures, you end up with no fans.

There is a very fine line here and if "we" get it wrong, there will be nothing left.

They do say to "be careful what you wish for".

That's all he will ever give you Wayne. He'll take any good point off at an irrelevant tangent. Catalans don't develop players - Mikal Simon has just retired so they are more English/Aussie than ever. They don't have a paying TV deal. Both are required for SL, but he'll tell you how great Catalans crowds are instead.

I totally understand what your saying about NA and have said it for years since TWP started, but then I'm the troll according to you

Which is why I said the North Americans should play in the Championship to prove there is any mileage in expansion there, but you appeared to disagree with that??

The USARL are a 2011 grass roots competition attempting to build bottom up.

Perez and Wilby are using the "top down" model. They just need to find Argyles for Ottawa and NY.......

If super league bosses were concerned that additional clubs could affect existing clubs chances of success, the game would never grow, would it?

It's about spreading the game, not about worrying whether existing clubs chances of success are slightly reduced.

I think that a large percentage of posters who criticise North American clubs do so out of fear.

This isn't about "affecting the SL clubs chance of success", it's about not destroying SL with an untried, untested "raft" of new clubs.
Even IF an influx of N . American clubs is somehow going to take the sport to the "next level" (which is one hell of a long shot), why risk the whols sport on a gamble.
The whole thing smacks of a brown envelope being passed under the table.
Without any underpinning of the game over there and significant time and money invested to create "junior" clubs etc, N. America is lost without English and Aussie players.
Are you really suggesting that splitting the comp, having half N. American and half European clubs, making up a 12 club SL is real progress ?

We may swap unfashionable "pit town" names, like Wigan, Castleford, Wakefield, for New York and Montreal etc, which does sound more glamorous.
However, just how long could they (N. American clubs) rely on recruiting from over here, not to mention the huge costs in getting clubs accross the Atlantic every other week - it's absolute madness.

This isn't about fear, it's about the game being gambled away on a maybe.

How exactly is super league going to be destroyed? Possibly 10+ players next year and perhaps the year after.

English teams are not going to disappear. Case in point Widnes. Their crowds haven't nosedived and still run an academy iirc, therefore developing players whilst in the Championship.

There goes the bait Fishing again?