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Quote: Superted "Wow - you seem very angry about my view of them as an expansion club, and appear to have made a whole host of assumptions based on what seems an irrational over reaction, but I'll answer your points;

1 - I class them as an expansion club because they're non-heartlands. They're a relatively new entity in an area that is not historically and RL hotbed. As for TV deal etc, I would never have expected them to bring immediate revenue in this area, but long term, if RL is to take off in North America, there are huge potential benefits - but this will very much be a slow burner and relies on plenty of other things to work.

2 - Again, it's impossible to expect them to be supplying Super League level home grown players in such a short period of time and this would very much be a long term aim. They are a figurehead at the top table (which is needed to attract non-traditional RL families to the kids game), but building the infrastructure in terms of junior leagues, development pathways etc will take decades to start producing players of the required standard. This is an argument I've seen a lot of people raising 'they've not got any Canadian players'... Do you really expect them to have at this point in their journey? Melbourne are one of, if not THE most successful clubs in the NRL, yet after 30 years of existence, they've only had the 1 Victorian come through their systems and make grade in NRL, and he was a Tongan heritage player anyway. Would you say Melbourne are a failure as a club?

3 - Agree this is a shame, but that was based on the rules of promotion/relegation, hardly TWP's fault that London finished bottom. For what's it worth, I would like to see both TWP and London around the top table, and I'd be happy for the governing body to provide support/concessions to both clubs in order to help them be successful. If (and I accept it's a big if) we can make London, TWP, other French and North American clubs successful enough to stand on their own 2 feet, that can only be a positive for the sport of RL as a whole.

4 - Again, I get the view that you are looking at things purely in the short term. If we can get 5 successful North American clubs, I couldn't give a rats backside where they get their players from - if people are willing to pay to turn up and watch it, that sets a platform for each of those clubs to set up all of the infrastructure needed for junior development etc and grow the fanbase of RL worldwide. If North America became that much of a success, I'm sure they'd want their own league - and that would be wonderful.

5 - That's TWP's issue to deal with - The fact players don't want to travel 400 miles to play in London shows how small time we are culturally as a sport. If TWP have the money and have success, the players will be more than happy to travel. Melbourne faced similar issues in Aus, as have Canberra historically - yet both teams have no problems attracting players during their successful periods.

So, in summary, and to answer your final point, I can see the potential benefits that could be achieved if TWP (or any other expansion club, including London) were to be a success long term and believe as a sport, we should do everything we can to help them get there. Melbourne have been given plenty of support of the years, and RL in Melbourne is now flourishing, though they're still struggling to develop local juniors 30 years into their existence, but they do produce lots of superstars from their juniors, albeit those players brought in at a young age from more traditional RL heartlands in Aus, or from the pacific Islands. Melbourne have a very solid fan base though and are now one of the most successful commercial entities in the NRL, but that has taken a staggering amount of financial support from News LTD and the NRL.

The way I see it, we can stick with our traditional clubs, and the sport will never reach it's potential, we'll stay at the sort of level we're at now in terms of financial power and stature within the sporting world (or more likely we'll fall further behind). I'd prefer to work through time and resource behind trying to grow the game, expansion clubs are vital for this, but it will take decades before this pays off.'"

One of the best posts I've read, sums it all up so everyone can understand.