FORUMS > The Virtual Terrace > Albert Kelly is off the hook |
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| Quote: A unknown superstar "In that case then, after been refused at the bar they should have walked away instead of kicking off and likely scaring the two women bar staff and that would have been the end of it. But no they carry on and even try getting behind the bar! Only two people who are out of order here and that’s the Tomkins brothers. Being in the limelight in Wigan and young kids role models, they should have known better.'"
Of course they should have but the bar staff deliberately try and wind Joel up to get a reaction out of him knowing that he was ed.
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"The Golden Generation finally has its Golden Fleece! They have Wembley Cup Final winners medals to add to their collection."
23/08/2014: |
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| Quote: AS108 "Why would you need to pick up what’s being said when it’s just drunken insults, unless your planning on making them look as bad as possible and then using it against them. At no point does either of them look physically threatening and it didn’t shut Joel up and wound him up even more. If you’re that scared you don’t stand there filming them and engage in conversation. They knew exactly what they were doing and I don’t feel sorry for them at all.'"
Does the woman claim to be scared? What would you want them to do instead of engage in conversation? Physically throw out two rugby players bigger than them? Walk away from the bar they work at? And yes picking up what's said is important, watch that video on mute and they could be talking about anything.
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| Quote: AS108 "Why would you need to pick up what’s being said when it’s just drunken insults, unless your planning on making them look as bad as possible and then using it against them. At no point does either of them look physically threatening and it didn’t shut Joel up and wound him up even more. If you’re that scared you don’t stand there filming them and engage in conversation. They knew exactly what they were doing and I don’t feel sorry for them at all.'"
I think Joel going behind the bar is physically intimidating. The bar staff repeatedly ask them to leave, which suggests they may be scared and feel intimidated. However, you can’t simply decide how someone feels based on their actions. Just because they don’t look terrified (in your view), it doesn’t mean they weren’t.
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| Quote: AS108 "Of course they should have but the bar staff deliberately try and wind Joel up to get a reaction out of him knowing that he was vexed.'"
Do they? My perception is that they ask him to leave on many occasions.
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| To make matters worse, it was 5 weeks ago. The owner of the bar in question contacted the club who said they would dealt with it internally.
Seems like the club have done nothing...
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| Quote: ThePrinter "Does the woman claim to be scared? What would you want them to do instead of engage in conversation? Physically throw out two rugby players bigger than them? Walk away from the bar they work at? And yes picking up what's said is important, watch that video on mute and they could be talking about anything.'"
The one talking to Sam at the start says she feels uncomfortable and there’s supposedly a 17 year old in tears. Instead of engaging in conversation they should have just asked them to leave and then rang the police which would have been the best way to get them to leave. Instead, one gets her phone out and starts filming them which is only going to wind them up and then calls Joel a ‘weirdo’, implies their careers will be ruined and whispers sams name to try and get a reaction off him. And I ask why they need to get the audio because calling someone a sad c**t and the rectum of Wigan is not a criminal offence so the only reason for filming it is to put it online. They’re all either stupid or out of order.
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einstien said insanity is when a person does the same thing over and over again but expects a different result: |
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| Quote: AS108 "The one talking to Sam at the start says she feels uncomfortable and there’s supposedly a 17 year old in tears. Instead of engaging in conversation they should have just asked them to leave and then rang the police which would have been the best way to get them to leave. Instead, one gets her phone out and starts filming them which is only going to wind them up and then calls Joel a ‘weirdo’, implies their careers will be ruined and whispers sams name to try and get a reaction off him. And I ask why they need to get the audio because calling someone a sad c**t and the rectum of Wigan is not a criminal offence so the only reason for filming it is to put it online. They’re all either stupid or out of order.'"
Are you Joel Tomkins agent the way your justifying what he did if he'd had left when asked then the filming becomes irrelevant but he didn't he just kept saying he's not so it's all his OWN FAULT
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"The Golden Generation finally has its Golden Fleece! They have Wembley Cup Final winners medals to add to their collection."
23/08/2014: |
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| Quote: AS108 "The one talking to Sam at the start says she feels uncomfortable and there’s supposedly a 17 year old in tears. Instead of engaging in conversation they should have just asked them to leave and then rang the police which would have been the best way to get them to leave. Instead, one gets her phone out and starts filming them which is only going to wind them up and then calls Joel a ‘weirdo’, implies their careers will be ruined and whispers sams name to try and get a reaction off him. And I ask why they need to get the audio because calling someone a sad c**t and the rectum of Wigan is not a criminal offence so the only reason for filming it is to put it online. They’re all either stupid or out of order.'"
The one talking to Sam isn't the one filming, uncomfortable isn't scared and just because you don't think you'd get your phone out of scared doesn't mean it's not the way someone else would react.
They did ask them to leave many times and go to phone the police, Joel went behind the bar when they were going to do this.
What they said may not be a criminal offence but you only know what they said after the fact. The girl doesn't know before she starts filming exactly what Joel's going to say....he could've easily verbally threatened to hurt her for example.
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| Quote: AS108 "calling someone a sad c**t and the rectum of Wigan is not a criminal offence.'"
Actually, it could be. Behaviour that causes harassment, alarm or distress is a criminal offence under the Public Order Act.
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| Quote: ThePrinter "The one talking to Sam isn't the one filming, uncomfortable isn't scared and just because you don't think you'd get your phone out of scared doesn't mean it's not the way someone else would react.
They did ask them to leave many times and go to phone the police, Joel went behind the bar when they were going to do this.
What they said may not be a criminal offence but you only know what they said after the fact. The girl doesn't know before she starts filming exactly what Joel's going to say....he could've easily verbally threatened to hurt her for example.'"
It’s all well and good ‘going to ring the police’ but why didn’t they actually ring them? Also, we don’t know what happened before the filming. I’m not doubting that they’re both idiots at the very best but I think it’s been made to look worse than it actually is.
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White Backgrounds/Statler.gif :White Backgrounds/Statler.gif |
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| Seen a comment from the bar maid which says she was paid to delete the video. The plot thickens.
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"The Golden Generation finally has its Golden Fleece! They have Wembley Cup Final winners medals to add to their collection."
23/08/2014: |
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| Quote: AS108 "It’s all well and good ‘going to ring the police’ but why didn’t they actually ring them? Also, we don’t know what happened before the filming. I’m not doubting that they’re both idiots at the very best but I think it’s been made to look worse than it actually is.'"
Because Joel tries to walk behind the bar so they go to stop him.
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| Quote: Willzay "Seen a comment from the bar maid which says she was paid to delete the video. The plot thickens.'"
She says on Facebook that she was paid a grand to delete the video and she didn’t put it on. Means that she has sent it to someone. Not sure how anyone can argue that she wasn’t looking to provoke them.
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| Quote: ThePrinter "Because Joel tries to walk behind the bar so they go to stop him.'"
Why not ring them once he goes back? And why would you tell him to ‘say it’ repeatedly, when he says ‘do you know what you look like’ but doesn’t seem to have a clue what he’s going to say himself, if your not looking to provoke them?
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| Quote: AS108 "Joel Tomkins doesn’t touch her, he tries to walk round the bar but his arms are down by his side and the woman pushes and shouts, a massive overreaction. Stupid, abusive and out of order? Yes. But I’ve seen nothing that suggests either of them should be sacked. Some of the stuff he says is disgraceful but if your going to engage with someone who’s drunk and aggressive then what do you expect? Comments such as “it’s not my career that will be ruined” sum it up for me. He should apologise and possibly fined but that’s about it.'"
To me, this is the issue in terms of severity.
At 00:11 Joel moves around the front of the bar. The woman behind the bar tells him not to come round, and holds out her hand in a defensive manner. He continues to enter the bar area and at 00:12 clearly and deliberately walks into the woman saying “I will” and grabs her left arm with his right hand.
What happens afterwards is bad but to me, this physical contact is completely unacceptable.
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