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Quote: Saddened! "The RFL are incompetent and it's taken Bradford's Chairman telling them what has happened for them to find it two years later.

The third party company contract is so easy to do, the RFL and their incompetent setup would never find it on their own. The owners of clubs these days have so many business interests that it's incredibly easy to employ a wife on a consultancy basis, or the player themselves. If no one squeals it will not be found.'"


Firstly, for once I think you are being harsh in the RFL. They simply cannot force independent companies or individual players to disclose financial information. Therefore, I'm not sure what you expect them to do?
It's also important to note that the Brandford chairman didn't reveal all this, it came out in Puletua's employment tribunal hearing. However, as Bradford were relegated in one of the seasons Salford may have breached the cap (having suffered a points deduction themselves) I'd say he has the right to feel aggrieved. If Salford had not been so deceitful, their alleged breach may have been discovered in the season it occurred, and Bradford may have remained in Super League.
To me, if this is proven natural justice would be Bradford getting promotion at the expense of Salford.

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Quote: [Gareth] ""The thing with Wigan is that 'we' didnt actually break the salary cap i.e. we didnt spend more in that year on wages than we where allowed to. The payments where simply back-loaded into into the contracts which is common practice in plenty of sports (the NFL being a prime example)

The RFL had to be seen to be doing something about it so Wigan got charged with breaking the 'spirit of the cap'

Will be very interesting to see the reaction to Salford's alleged breach'"


"The Warriors were found guilty of busting the limit of £1.6m on payments by £222,314 (6.3%)."

www.theguardian.com/sport/2007/j ... ague.sport
Quote: [Gareth] ""The thing with Wigan is that 'we' didnt actually break the salary cap i.e. we didnt spend more in that year on wages than we where allowed to. The payments where simply back-loaded into into the contracts which is common practice in plenty of sports (the NFL being a prime example)

The RFL had to be seen to be doing something about it so Wigan got charged with breaking the 'spirit of the cap'

Will be very interesting to see the reaction to Salford's alleged breach'"


"The Warriors were found guilty of busting the limit of £1.6m on payments by £222,314 (6.3%)."

www.theguardian.com/sport/2007/j ... ague.sport


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Quote: SmokeyTA "And then what? Destroy whatever is being built at Salford and promote a side who can't compete? Seems like a sensible long term plan for the sport.'"


I'd say a few championship clubs could become competitive with the additional £1million funding difference. Your theory is, if you've got money, do what you want d040.gif

I said this on our forum, this is a massive acid test for the new system and RFL. If the Salford are found guilty and depending on the severity (It's over a 2 year period and from what it looks like, they are being investigate for deliberately deceiving the SC, which IMO is serious) then it's no good deducting them points for the regular season, then them starting on zero with everyone else in the middles. Feel for the Salford fans as it looked like on the field they were starting to get things together.

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Quote: Bull Mania "I'd say a few championship clubs could become competitive with the additional £1million funding difference. Your theory is, if you've got money, do what you want I would love a competitive Bradford in SL buy that's not what we are going to get. We don't even have 12 clubs in SL who are competitive. We certainly don't have any outside it.

My theory is of Salford have the money they should not be allowed but encouraged to spend it. That wakefield or whoever don't is of no relevance

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Quote: SmokeyTA "And then what? Destroy whatever is being built at Salford and promote a side who can't compete? Seems like a sensible long term plan for the sport.'"

so we let cheats prosper then?

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Quote: SmokeyTA "I would love a competitive Bradford in SL buy that's not what we are going to get. We don't even have 12 clubs in SL who are competitive. We certainly don't have any outside it.

My theory is of Salford have the money they should not be allowed but encouraged to spend it. That wakefield or whoever don't is of no relevance'"


Of course Bradford could be competitive, as could Leigh. They both have a bigger fanbase than Salford do currently and with the same funding that SL clubs have, there is no reason why they couldn't construct the exact same squad that Salford are currently running with.
In addition to that, Bradford have a superb academy setup - graded superior to several SL clubs - that would only help to bolster their chances in the top flight.

Having said that, there is no way the RFL would ever drop a club down a division and do a straight swap like that, so such discussions are pointless.

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Quote: meast "so we let cheats prosper then?'"


Leave that to our government.

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Quote: Nothus "Of course Bradford could be competitive, as could Leigh. They both have a bigger fanbase than Salford do currently and with the same funding that SL clubs have, there is no reason why they couldn't construct the exact same squad that Salford are currently running with.
In addition to that, Bradford have a superb academy setup - graded superior to several SL clubs - that would only help to bolster their chances in the top flight.

Having said that, there is no way the RFL would ever drop a club down a division and do a straight swap like that, so such discussions are pointless.'"

Salford lose millions. That's why Bradford and Leigh couldn't do it

Club not having enough fans but having someone willing to stump up millions > club having more but still not having enough fans and not having someone willing to stump up millions

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Quote: SmokeyTA "Salford lose millions. That's why Bradford and Leigh couldn't do it

Club not having enough fans but having someone willing to stump up millions > club having more but still not having enough fans and not having someone willing to stump up millions'"


Salford was just used as an example in my post. Castleford are a great example of how competitive a club can be when they get it right. Bradford could match Castleford's attendances and overall income levels.
Are Cas losing millions too?

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Quote: Nothus "Salford was just used as an example in my post. Castleford are a great example of how competitive a club can be when they get it right. Bradford could match Castleford's attendances and overall income levels.
Are Cas losing millions too?'"

Yes. Cas were hours away from going just before Jack Fulton gave them another 900k. Cas have also been relegated numerous times and spent far more time at the bottom of the league than the top and their ground is falling down. We all hope new ground plan mk5 comes off but if it doesn't Cas are up the Creek.

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Quote: Saddened! "I've been banging on for years that this will be happening. The RFL are incompetent and it's taken Bradford's Chairman telling them what has happened for them to find it two years later.

For me, Salford should be kicked out of Super League. What they've done isn't accidental overspending, it's deliberate and is no doubt still happening now. I've said for years that all this salary cap rorting will come out inevitably as players from the SL era retire and release their autobiographies. The third party company contract is so easy to do, the RFL and their incompetent setup would never find it on their own. The owners of clubs these days have so many business interests that it's incredibly easy to employ a wife on a consultancy basis, or the player themselves. If no one squeals it will not be found.'"

You might want to stick a few "allegedly"s in there. Don't necessarily disagree, but none of it is proven yet.

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ALL GAVE SOME.. SOME GAVE ALL... Blue noses are born, Not manufactured. We do not choose, We are the chosen. Those who don't understand, Don't matter. Those who understand, Need no explanation .. W.A T.P RANGERS will rise again winner of the Wakefield Trinity challenge cup tipping comp 2012....YNBTG:3604.gif



Quote: Chris28 "You might want to stick a few "allegedly"s in there. Don't necessarily disagree, but none of it is proven yet.'"

if salford have "allegedly "done wrong, for me it has to be relegation....somebody has to go down or be denied promotion, depending on play offs, how can the rfl deny a team a place in the top flight when another team has cheated?....it might be all a wind up, but koukash hasn't hid the fact that he would cheat the cap as he believes other teams have done it..

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Quote: [Gareth] ""The thing with Wigan is that 'we' didnt actually break the salary cap i.e. we didnt spend more in that year on wages than we where allowed to. The payments where simply back-loaded into into the contracts which is common practice in plenty of sports (the NFL being a prime example)

The RFL had to be seen to be doing something about it so Wigan got charged with breaking the 'spirit of the cap'

Will be very interesting to see the reaction to Salford's alleged breach'"


Brilliant !

So it's ok to sign players and agree to pay them in the next financial year.
You sound like a tory tax advisor or someone from the accounts office of a multinational tax dodging empire.

Just answer one question please.

Did Kris Radlinski (or any family member) receive payment for his playing services that season ?

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ALL GAVE SOME.. SOME GAVE ALL... Blue noses are born, Not manufactured. We do not choose, We are the chosen. Those who don't understand, Don't matter. Those who understand, Need no explanation .. W.A T.P RANGERS will rise again winner of the Wakefield Trinity challenge cup tipping comp 2012....YNBTG:3604.gif



Quote: wrencat1873 "Brilliant !

So it's ok to sign players and agree to pay them in the next financial year.
You sound like a tory tax advisor or someone from the accounts office of a multinational tax dodging empire.

Just answer one question please.

Did Kris Radlinski (or any family member) receive payment for his playing services that season ?'"

of course not, it was all done for charity...even cas went down for the benefit of the charity

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I'd be interested to know what system Saddened would like to see in place that would catch a payment from a third party company, other than requiring players to submit their full financial records to the RFL each season for an audit?

Even in that case, how would you audit a cash payment in a brown envelope that never touches the player's bank account? Whatever system you put in place, there is always going to be someone who finds a way round it either legally or otherwise.

If a combination of real-time reporting (the live cap) and self-assessment (reliance on the clubs to abide by the spirit of the cap) is good enough for the tax system of the country, I'm not sure why it isn't good enough for the RFL?

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