FORUMS > The Virtual Terrace > 2016: Make a Case for Your Teams Success |
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| Quote: Wigg'n "Average age of 29
That doesn't make it not a good pack though, and Ellis is the only one who's injury record gives any cause for concern.
I don't see it being much of an issue tbh. Certainly not this season, but we will have to start doing a bit of future planning. Taylor and Watts can hopefully be our front row for years, along with Houghton, Manu is also the right side of 30. Then you've got Abdull who wasn't mentioned in that post. Green and Bowden are still young (both need to really kick on and prove they are more than just average squad players though), Hadley and Thompson are well established now. Then you've got a bunch of guys who came in and impressed at the back end of last year. Turgut, Matongo, Downs, Fash. There's plenty in the pack to build around.
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| Quote: Mr. Zucchini Head "That doesn't make it not a good pack though, and Ellis is the only one who's injury record gives any cause for concern.
I don't see it being much of an issue tbh. Certainly not this season, but we will have to start doing a bit of future planning. Taylor and Watts can hopefully be our front row for years, along with Houghton, Manu is also the right side of 30. Then you've got Abdull who wasn't mentioned in that post. Green and Bowden are still young (both need to really kick on and prove they are more than just average squad players though), Hadley and Thompson are well established now. Then you've got a bunch of guys who came in and impressed at the back end of last year. Turgut, Matongo, Downs, Fash. There's plenty in the pack to build around.'"
Hull FC's problems have not been about squad quality for years now as they have always had a very talented squad "ON PAPER" each season
IMO the club is heading in the right direction finally in creating a better culture within the club for these talented players to work in each day and to adhere to should they wish to move to be trophy contenders in the near future
Pearson has been "All wind and p155" with his promises each season whilst he has been in charge but i believe that he has finally realised that his clubs problems are not always down to squad ability and each individual players playing capabilities alone
It's a very big year for Radford IMO as he surely needs to deliver the goods after some very good squad investment during his tenure at the club with now't to show for it
Hull FC will finish between 5th to 9th IMO in 2016 and i can foresee a change of head coach for 2017
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| Hull will not do anything but underperform until they get a decent coach.
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| Quote: FearTheVee "Hull will not do anything but underperform until they get a decent coach.'"
This is certainly his make or break year, he improved last year and I hope he can improve further as a coach this year, I suppose I bit like Mcdermott did.
We have a decent set of fixtures until Easter, so if we aren't around the top 4, by then, I'd expect him to be sacked.
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| Quote: FearTheVee "Hull will not do anything but underperform until they get a decent coach.'"
I would agree with this. IMO both Catalans and Hull have decent squads more than capable of making the top 4 but won't do so with their current coaching regime.
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| Quote: Dave K. "This is certainly his make or break year, he improved last year and I hope he can improve further as a coach this year, I suppose I bit like Mcdermott did.
We have a decent set of fixtures until Easter, so if we aren't around the top 4, by then, I'd expect him to be sacked.'"
Bear in mind McDermott cut his coaching teeth down in London before he took the reins at Leeds where he certainly oversaw some dodgy regular season performances before (arguably) being hauled out of the mire by a very good side. He's undoubtedly a good coach now but it still took more time than Radford's had thus far.
Bit ironic that it was a post from a Saints fan that set off this thread twist when the jury's still out re whether KC will hack it as a coach.
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| Quote: Clearwing "Bear in mind McDermott cut his coaching teeth down in London before he took the reins at Leeds where he certainly oversaw some dodgy regular season performances before (arguably) being hauled out of the mire by a very good side. He's undoubtedly a good coach now but it still took more time than Radford's had thus far.
Bit ironic that it was a post from a Saints fan that set off this thread twist when the jury's still out re whether KC will hack it as a coach.'"
Think quite a lot of coaches are under pressure. Both at Hull and Catalans obviously been mentioned. Tony Smith I think needs to bounce back after last year at Wire. Grumbles at Saints about Cunningham's style on the team. Wane has come up short 3 out of his 4 seasons and potless the last two. Even Anderson at the Giants, looked to be taking them closer by winning the LLS and being more competitive vs the big buys in knockout games but took a big backwards step last year and saved their worst for their CC and playoff exits. At HKR, with them making the cup final last year and bringing Peacock on board then if Chester doesn't get them into the Top 8 he could be on shakey ground and has Betts taken Widnes as far as he can?
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| Hull remind me of Tottenham in a way. A decent team on paper just need a style of play to fit them all. Spurs are getting it now they've got the right coach, Hull haven't yet.
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| hulls problem is depth. Its why almost all 'challenger' clubs fall away.
Leeds lose Hardaker for a game and they can replace him with Ashton Golding, Briscoe is out for a few months and they can put in handley, leeds have the likes of Keinhorst, Walters, Achurch, Mullally who probably wont get in the first choice 17, potential stars like Lilley, Cam Smith, Jordan Baldwinson looking for game time.
Saints and Wigan are the same, Wigan not only have a George Williams to step up, but a Ryan Hampshire going to Cas on loan too.
They all have a fantastic first 17, another 5 or 6 of the best players in SL, and another 5 or 6 of the best prospects and proven SL quality players. Other clubs just dont have that, they have a first 17 who can compete, but they lose 2 or 3 important players, 2 or 3 first teamers and it all falls apart.
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| Quote: SmokeyTA "hulls problem is depth. Its why almost all 'challenger' clubs fall away.
Leeds lose Hardaker for a game and they can replace him with Ashton Golding, Briscoe is out for a few months and they can put in handley, leeds have the likes of Keinhorst, Walters, Achurch, Mullally who probably wont get in the first choice 17, potential stars like Lilley, Cam Smith, Jordan Baldwinson looking for game time.
Saints and Wigan are the same, Wigan not only have a George Williams to step up, but a Ryan Hampshire going to Cas on loan too.
They all have a fantastic first 17, another 5 or 6 of the best players in SL, and another 5 or 6 of the best prospects and proven SL quality players. Other clubs just dont have that, they have a first 17 who can compete, but they lose 2 or 3 important players, 2 or 3 first teamers and it all falls apart.'"
I would agree with you that its been an issue in the past, but it is precisely in this area that I feel we have made the biggest strides. Its no secret that to compete properly you need good youth players pushing through, those players you mention above are not veterans by any means, they are all young talents.
These are some players that will most likely not be first choice for Hull:
Yeaman, Whiting, Michaels, Lee Smith (?), Feka, Thompson, Naughton, Hadley, Green, Bowden.
Those might not be world beaters but they are all established players with plenty of Superleague rugby under their belt who you know will come in and do a solid job. Then there is a wave of very talented young players in just about every position. I think we are better placed to handle an injury crisis (it seems almost inevitable where Hull are concerned) than we have been for quite a while.
The one position of concern is hooker. It looks like Washbrook is our back up hooker, which is fine if Houghton stays fit. If he is out for a while though we are either playing someone out of position or going to Jez Litten, who is very talented but also only 17.
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| If both Houghton and Washbrook are options for hooker you'll be lucky to get 7th.
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| Quote: Willzay "If both Houghton and Washbrook are options for hooker you'll be lucky to get 7th.'"
Yet finished last season 7th with just Houghton.
With a better 13 and squad we should be looking at improving on last years finish (Although plenty of other clubs will be thinking that)
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| The problem Hull and others around that part of the table seemed to be the view of just making sure you're in the 8 after 23 rounds. Whilst that worked for them it left them too far adrift when the Super 8's started.
The lesson to be learnt is, don't target 6th-8th spot after 23 rounds. Target the top 4 after 23 rounds and that'll put you in position to challenge in the 8's. Of course it'll be tough for those teams to make that jump up into the top 4 but it's sport, it should be tough to get up to the top.
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| Quote: ThePrinter "The problem Hull and others around that part of the table seemed to be the view of just making sure you're in the 8 after 23 rounds. Whilst that worked for them it left them too far adrift when the Super 8's started.
The lesson to be learnt is, don't target 6th-8th spot after 23 rounds. Target the top 4 after 23 rounds and that'll put you in position to challenge in the 8's. Of course it'll be tough for those teams to make that jump up into the top 4 but it's sport, it should be tough to get up to the top.'"
That's another thing to bear in mind with Hull. Last season our start pretty much dictated that just making the 8 was our season objective. Don't forget that after 8 games we had 4 points and many fans were already resigned to playing middle 8 rugby.
We then amassed 18 points in the next 14 games (one more than Leeds, level with Hudds and Saints and only two less than Wigan) by which time we were effectively putting out a reserve team (I believe 3 kids actually made their debuts in the 8's) and didn't realistically have a chance of making up the ground to the top 4. But we remained competitive in every game.
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| Quote: ThePrinter "Think quite a lot of coaches are under pressure. Both at Hull and Catalans obviously been mentioned. Tony Smith I think needs to bounce back after last year at Wire. Grumbles at Saints about Cunningham's style on the team. Wane has come up short 3 out of his 4 seasons and potless the last two. Even Anderson at the Giants, looked to be taking them closer by winning the LLS and being more competitive vs the big buys in knockout games but took a big backwards step last year and saved their worst for their CC and playoff exits. At HKR, with them making the cup final last year and bringing Peacock on board then if Chester doesn't get them into the Top 8 he could be on shakey ground and has Betts taken Widnes as far as he can?'"
It'll be interesting, that's for sure. Frayssinous has to be on dodgy ground and I can only see Catalans being continually undermined by their away form. Whether any coach could find a remedy is a moot point. Smith I have no worries about and I fancy wire for a good year. Neither will saints be far off - when are they ever? Ditto Wane; I think both he and KC are safe. I could see Hudds going backwards due to disruption and a slight waning of the likes of Brough and Crabtree but can you imagine Davy getting shut of Anderson?. HKR are, you'd imagine, taking a long term view with the appointment of Peacock and I don't see them ditching Chester before the year's out. I reckon Betts could well be safe too as I don't think Widnes hold unrealistic expectations or ambitions. Perhaps even Koukash will show more patience than he has in the past if things don't go their way. And I see less likelihood of Radford getting the boot than I did a year ago.
My predictions are invariably rubbish so who knows? Maybe they'll all get chapped.
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