It'd allow the SL clubs to retain their top English players though.

roosters will push them this season

You can call it club bias all you want, but had Warrington not turned up to the weirdest reffing performance ever(tonight's being somewhat different) than I think we could have took a close win.

People have said we were dumb for not adapting, but it would have been our luck to start lying on and then thaler deciding to blow his whistle

Souths will have a good crack at the NRL this year but there are 5 or 6 other genuine contenders ready to take their crown.

Miles behind

Yes and so we should be considering the salary cap.

It's about time people stop going all gooey eyed about the NRL and playing them. Instead of wasting time and energy on WCC formats that will never truly prove "who is the best" we should concentrate on our own league and product.

Anyone who watched NRL last year must have known Saints didn't really stand much chance tonight. Souths are an outstanding team even for the NRL. They have the occasional 'off' game but even when they're poor they're dangerous and can beat good sides. Too good by far, and it didn't help that Saints weren't at their best. Slightly weakened by the loss of Sam Burgess but Glenn Stewart is a huge addition.

One big difference for me, as ever, has been the explosive acceleration off the mark and sheer pace of the Aussies. Only our very fastest lads can cope in the open, and we have too few of them. That said our athleticism is getting there as Wigan and Wire showed with their defensive performance and scrambling defence.

Before this I thought Wire might win, Wigan would lose (based on performances so far), and Saints would be in trouble unless they were at their very best. As it is Souths were a standard above everyone else and that showed. The other games could have gone either way.

The backs thing is something that's been a problem for a while. Guys like Makinson are good skillful players, but physically they just can't match it with what the Aussies and Kiwis have. I thought Kevin Penny was excellent the other night, he was everywhere, but he offered no impact whatsoever when carrying the ball and was just smashed every time he carried it.

Imo the two best athletes we have on the wings are Hall and Lineham (Briscoe is a close 3rd). Both guys are well over 6 foot, over 16 stone, fast, strong in the air and most importantly they carry the ball like forwards and won't be physically dominated. They might not be the most exciting wingers to watch in this country, but they are the closest we have to an Aussie style winger. Lineham has been unlucky with a couple of bad injurys over the last couple of years. Providing he stays injury free and has a good season then they should be the two guys facing NZ imo.

I feel that it's not just about the different caps. The problem with the salary cap is that even if we had the same cap as the NRL, we'd still only have the same players available, they'd just be earning more money. You could argue that there may not be as much of an incentive for our better players to leave for the NRL or union, but money isn't always a factor. There's other factors such as the weather, the lifestyle, the lure of the massive international profile, the national and international coverage, and backing yourself to go and test yourself against the best. We could have the exact same cap and I still think we'd be in the same boat. The Aussies get nice weather. They grow up in nice conditions being able to flick the ball about. Our kids grow up sliding about in the mud. Their players are simply bigger, stronger and have more skill. Sport and winning is an important philosophy in Aus. Over here we're happy if we lose as long as people try their best and put the effort in. We grow up on the mentality of, 'It's not the winning, it's the taking part' and 'everyone's a winner'. In reality, why would the very best NRL players leave to come to play in the wet and cold if they could get the same money back home?

We aren't that far away. Saints were poor tonight and Souths very good. If Saints had played at or near their best then they'd have pushed Souths close. A bounce of the ball and some even reffing would help too.

We do have issues though. In my opinion the biggest advantages the Aussies/NRL have over us/SL are:

- bigger talent pool (In England there are approx 9000 registered, active players at age 12-16. Sydney alone has 42,000)
- Feeder clubs/reserves
- playing fewer games
- a supply of athletic Pacific Islanders

We can't do much about the last one, but we can coach our youngsters in the right fashion and try and get them more athletic. The other issues we can do something about. The talent pool being the biggest issue in my opinion.

You can say that about penny but the first half we were having plenty of joy on the outside against the dragons, wheeler had a couple of half breaks and we were setting up overlaps, let it not be forgotten that we were about to break with a two man overlap on the right when nabuli took his head off, then the game changed considerably, we started going down the middle more and he wasn't carded.

To all the Koukash bashers with their parochial northern blinkers,this is the reason we need people like the doctor who can see the glaring disparity and who is thinking of ways to take the brit up a level

the last thing we should do is run away from tough competition, we should regroup and do what needs to be done to close that gap. The WCC/WCS in whatever format is an opportunity to celebrate when we win, and learn when we lose.

That's what we should do right now, no over-reaction to a loss against a very special side, not throw our hands up and say sod it we can't compete and stop bothering, its a time to take stock and make the changes necessary.

We need a proper pathway from 6-20, to develop better players, to teach them skills earlier, to test their weaknesses earlier, to improve them earlier, to improve them more and to do it to more players from a bigger pool.

We need to amend the SC and bring in a marquee exemption, if we are to be the best we need to be playing against and with the best regularly. Losing our best players damages our league and we have seen it written large this series. Our players, even our best players don't know how to deal with the best antipodean players because they simply don't have the experience.

We need to improve the quality of SL, a simple game of basic error free football beats us because our players don't play against it. Their mistakes aren't punish, they are given chances, they get piggy backed up the field. You need to be far better to win the NRL than you do SL, that's why they are producing far better players and teams than us.

We need to keep playing these games and international games, our players need more exposure and more experience playing against better players.

So what's that got to do with the ref? Were your wingers scared cos they didn't think they'd get the protection? Was Penny injured from the high shot? He didn't look it. If that tactic was working the why change it? Warrington weren't good enough to implement tactics that worked. Get over it

Are you on glue?

No, it's an issue of too few kids playing the game here.