FORUMS > The Virtual Terrace > Wigan |
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973_1515165968.gif Last edited by Ferocious Aardvark on stardate Jun 26, 3013 11:27 am, edited 48,562,867,458,300,023 times in total:d7dc4b20b2c2dd7b76ac6eac29d5604e_973.gif |
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| Quote: LifeLongHKRFan "TBF to Child with regards to the red card. Should a player be allowed to stay on the pitch if the player he has injured with a high tackle has to sit out of the rest of the game?'"
You can't really go there, as then depending on personnel involved in an incident, some coaches may deem some players to be nfit to carry on to get someone sent off. Anyway they have 15 minutes. What do you suggest, get sent off 15 mins later if a player "can't resume"?
I think it's fine as it is, the ref can and rightly does take the outcome of the incident into account, sure Child couldn't "know" how bad Charnley was but made the same judgment as all other speccies, aided no doubt by his earpiece, and the result was the same as what you suggest.
Look at it this way, Ah Van does exactly the same thing, but marginally misses contact, he doesn't get sent off.
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| Quote: Ferocious Aardvark "You can't really go there, as then depending on personnel involved in an incident, some coaches may deem some players to be nfit to carry on to get someone sent off. Anyway they have 15 minutes. What do you suggest, get sent off 15 mins later if a player "can't resume"?
I think it's fine as it is, the ref can and rightly does take the outcome of the incident into account, sure Child couldn't "know" how bad Charnley was but made the same judgment as all other speccies, aided no doubt by his earpiece, and the result was the same as what you suggest.
Look at it this way, Ah Van does exactly the same thing, but marginally misses contact, he doesn't get sent off.'"
But looking at the incident retrospectively, The decision was correct because Charnley could play no further part in the game.
Look at it this way. If Sutton's challenge on Brown was high, should he be sent off? He would literally have just taken out Widnes main play maker for the rest of the game.
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| Poor performance by Wigan, in more than one respect. Nothing less than expected though these days.
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Transparent Backgrounds/Waldorf.gif "As you travel through life don't sweat the petty things and don't pet the sweaty things" - George Carlin
[url:2cg5oc2o]http://twitter.com/AndyGilder[/url:2cg5oc2o]
[url:2cg5oc2o]http://fromthewesternterrace.blogspot.co.uk[/url:2cg5oc2o]
This week: Four keys to a Rhinos win in the WCC:Transparent Backgrounds/Waldorf.gif |
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| Quote: LifeLongHKRFan "But looking at the incident retrospectively, The decision was correct because Charnley could play no further part in the game.'"
The decision was correct (just about, on balance) because Ah Van recklessly swung his arm and made contact with the head of another player. The consequences for Charnley should have little or no bearing on the punishment for Ah Van.
I've seen Rob Burrow cop plenty of head shots that he's just bounced up from. If you start encouraging people to stay down because it'll influence how the referee punishes the offender, you're heading down football's slippery slope.
What's more disappointing is that despite three on-field officials and a VR, Matty Smith wasn't given a red for lashing out at another player with the boot. Indeed it appeared that up until Robert Hicks decided to get involved at the restart, the rest of the officials were quite happy to turn a blind eye to the offence.
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| Why wasn't Farrel carded for his late high shot on the kicker
Not even penalised
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16493_1299497226.jpg [quote="king warrior":prbr924b]Adam Blair flew over yesterday and has been training the deal is going to be signed this week
Got to say this is a top signing[/quote:prbr924b]:d7dc4b20b2c2dd7b76ac6eac29d5604e_16493.jpg |
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| Quote: Code13 "Why wasn't Farrel carded for his late high shot on the kicker
Not even penalised'"
I think you've answered your own question there.
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973_1515165968.gif Last edited by Ferocious Aardvark on stardate Jun 26, 3013 11:27 am, edited 48,562,867,458,300,023 times in total:d7dc4b20b2c2dd7b76ac6eac29d5604e_973.gif |
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| Quote: Andy Gilder "The decision was correct (just about, on balance) because Ah Van recklessly swung his arm and made contact with the head of another player. The consequences for Charnley should have little or no bearing on the punishment for Ah Van. '"
But they should. As I pointed out elsewhere, if Paddy had done exactly the same motion but missed the head, he wouldn't have been sent off. And it's not just the RL disciplinary. Any court will always take into account the consequences for the victim, if Paddy did that to a stranger in the street, it would be an assault, if the stranger had an eggshell skull and died it would be manslaughter. Same act, wildly different consequences. And that's as it should be.
Quote: Andy Gilder "I've seen Rob Burrow cop plenty of head shots that he's just bounced up from. If you start encouraging people to stay down because it'll influence how the referee punishes the offender, you're heading down football's slippery slope. '"
Well yes, I saw Paul Deacon take more, but absolutely nobody is advocating that. The ref is experienced and I've watched a bit of rugby in my time, and it was plainly obvious that Charnley wasn't doing a performance.
Quote: Andy Gilder "What's more disappointing is that despite three on-field officials and a VR, Matty Smith wasn't given a red for lashing out at another player with the boot. Indeed it appeared that up until Robert Hicks decided to get involved at the restart, the rest of the officials were quite happy to turn a blind eye to the offence.'"
How it "appeared" isn't worth a comment as I don't know what was said or by whom. If Smith had been sent off he couldn't have complained, he kicked out at the player but "lashing out" is exaggerating it. Personally i would have sent him off as I don't want to see that on a rugby field even half-hearted, but I don't go so far as to say a yellow card was unjustifiable so i'm not bagging the ref for it, especially as I don't know just how much teh officials saw. But personally I hope the disciplinary is able to look at it and he cops a match and a fine, as it was ridiculous, and wants nipping in his petulant bud. I suppose if they can depends on what he was carded for, exactly.
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Transparent Backgrounds/Waldorf.gif "As you travel through life don't sweat the petty things and don't pet the sweaty things" - George Carlin
[url:2cg5oc2o]http://twitter.com/AndyGilder[/url:2cg5oc2o]
[url:2cg5oc2o]http://fromthewesternterrace.blogspot.co.uk[/url:2cg5oc2o]
This week: Four keys to a Rhinos win in the WCC:Transparent Backgrounds/Waldorf.gif |
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| Quote: Ferocious Aardvark "But they should. As I pointed out elsewhere, if Paddy had done exactly the same motion but missed the head, he wouldn't have been sent off. And it's not just the RL disciplinary. Any court will always take into account the consequences for the victim, if Paddy did that to a stranger in the street, it would be an assault, if the stranger had an eggshell skull and died it would be manslaughter. Same act, wildly different consequences. And that's as it should be.'"
It should be - and I believe is - part of the sentencing guidelines. I don't think it should form part of the on field decision making of a referee though. It's the act that needs to be dealt with, not the consequences which are to a certain extent subject to random chance anyway. Two virtually identical high tackles on the same player can have very different short term effects. If a player is high and reckless - which IMO Ah Van was - then it's a red, whether the recipient comes up with a cut, a concussion or without a scratch.
Quote: Ferocious Aardvark "I suppose if they can depends on what he was carded for, exactly.'"
IIRC the ridiculous rule that if a referee deals with it you can't use video which the FA apply isn't yet part of rugby league, and the match review panel can go back and retrospectively apply a punishment?
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Rank | Posts | Team |
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973_1515165968.gif Last edited by Ferocious Aardvark on stardate Jun 26, 3013 11:27 am, edited 48,562,867,458,300,023 times in total:d7dc4b20b2c2dd7b76ac6eac29d5604e_973.gif |
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| Quote: Andy Gilder "It should be - and I believe is - part of the sentencing guidelines. I don't think it should form part of the on field decision making of a referee though. It's the act that needs to be dealt with, not the consequences which are to a certain extent subject to random chance anyway. Two virtually identical high tackles on the same player can have very different short term effects. If a player is high and reckless - which IMO Ah Van was - then it's a red, whether the recipient comes up with a cut, a concussion or without a scratch.'"
Can't work, though. As I've said, Ah van does that exact same thing but misses, he would almost never be sent off. That's random chance - but that's how it is.
Quote: Andy Gilder "IIRC the ridiculous rule that if a referee deals with it you can't use video which the FA apply isn't yet part of rugby league, and the match review panel can go back and retrospectively apply a punishment?'"
Certainly hope so.
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61641_1313077623.png [color=#FF0000:18ol665r]A Pie is for life, not just a Wembley Final[/color:18ol665r]:d7dc4b20b2c2dd7b76ac6eac29d5604e_61641.png |
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| of course they can retrospectively deal with it, as can be seen by previous panel outcomes (Flower was dealt with by the ref and then the RFL panel dished out a 6 month ban). Sending off sufficient in Ah Vans case, Matty to get a ban
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| For as long as the Wigan fans continue to revel in their team trying to prove how tough (stupid?) they are and wane trying to prove how passionate (stupid?) he is, they will find ways of reinforcing an already well established grub club reputation.
Eventually the penny should drop that the reputation of a proud club is being damaged, but I'm not holding my breath as they'll just fall back on their "everyone is just jealous" routine rather than seriously thinking about how embarrassing some of their antics are.
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44920_1327005775.png [quote="Harrigan":1th0f7ap]Wigan are the most structured team I have ever seen in this country.[/quote:1th0f7ap]
[quote="NickyKiss":1th0f7ap]As a fan Wane makes you want to run through a brick wall so you can only imagine how he makes the players feel![/quote:1th0f7ap]
[url=http://twitter.com/#!/theegw:1th0f7ap]@TheEGW[/url:1th0f7ap]
[url=https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCsnX1esHN2wkEC1FxcO2TCg:1th0f7ap]YouTube Channel[/url:1th0f7ap]:d7dc4b20b2c2dd7b76ac6eac29d5604e_44920.png |
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| Quote: FearTheVee "For as long as the Wigan fans continue to revel in their team trying to prove how tough (stupid?) they are and wane trying to prove how passionate (stupid?) he is, they will find ways of reinforcing an already well established grub club reputation.
Eventually the penny should drop that the reputation of a proud club is being damaged, but I'm not holding my breath as they'll just fall back on their "everyone is just jealous" routine rather than seriously thinking about how embarrassing some of their antics are.'"
Christ, if you're blind to the criticism Wigan fans have dished out to the likes of Ben Flower and Matty Smith when they've let us down then you're a lost cause. I suppose next you'll claim Gaz Hock was the most popular player at the club.
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Others/eye4.gif [img:u454binz]http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d90/chazzwozza/rhcp8b.jpg[/img:u454binz]:Others/eye4.gif |
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| Quote: Saddened! "What does everyone think of their performance tonight? 12-0 up and handed a huge boost by the referee with that farcical red card and they've been bossed ever since. Widnes would have won this by 20 tonight if it wasn't for that card. Bar Sutton who has been hugely impressive in defense, they look a disorganised and indisciplined rabble. You would think they would have learned their lesson from last season, but it appears the scum and villainy is still a major part of the makeup at Wigan.
They are fortunate that the rest of SL aren't that impressive, but they look very average. A poor pack, average half backs, too many dumb, indisciplined players who cannot handle the pressure. Warrington by plenty for SL this season I think.
Was Phil Clarke about to say they had the best squad ever before it kicked off as well? He told us they had the best in SL about seven times then until he was interrupted appeared to be about to say that.'"
Hate the use of the word 'Scum' to describe professional sportsmen playing a tough game. You only have to look in the newspapers and what's going on in the world to know that there's a lot worse people out there.
As a fan of a team that has featured the players like Sonny Nickle, Vila Matautia and many others who 'played the game hard' you shouldn't be so quick to get on your soapbox. ( also check out Alan Hunte trying to take Offiah out of the game on Utube, many would be demanding police action on here if Joel did that these days)
It gets on my nerves when players are called Scum. Far too harsh a word
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4397_1335909374.png @chemical_viking:d7dc4b20b2c2dd7b76ac6eac29d5604e_4397.png |
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| Quote: Mike-79 "Hate the use of the word 'Scum' to describe professional sportsmen playing a tough game. You only have to look in the newspapers and what's going on in the world to know that there's a lot worse people out there.
As a fan of a team that has featured the players like Sonny Nickle, Vila Matautia and many others who 'played the game hard' you shouldn't be so quick to get on your soapbox. ( also check out Alan Hunte trying to take Offiah out of the game on Utube, many would be demanding police action on here if Joel did that these days)
It gets on my nerves when players are called Scum. Far too harsh a word'"
Worse when it's aimed at a whole set of fans.
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| Quote: TheElectricGlidingWarrior "Christ, if you're blind to the criticism Wigan fans have dished out to the likes of Ben Flower and Matty Smith when they've let us down then you're a lost cause. I suppose next you'll claim Gaz Hock was the most popular player at the club.
Exactly. Most Wigan fans here have made their unhappiness with Wane's apparent tactics (?) clear. Like most fans, I guess, I expect to see Wigan play with a bit of style and quality. That was sadly lacking against a determined Widnes side who fully deserved (at least) a point. The worst thing is, we are in danger of making a rod for our own backs for the rest of the season.
I've got my ticket for the Hudd game, and have been looking forward to it for a couple of weeks now. Bur some of the shine has gone off that expectation now. Ire member the same fixture last year all too well, and if we play like we did against Widnes, Brough and co will take us to the cleaners.
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