FORUMS > The Virtual Terrace > England vs Australia: do or almost die. |
|
|
Rank | Posts | Team |
International Star | 295 | No Team Selected |
Joined | Service | Reputation |
Mar 2014 | 11 years | |
Online | Last Post | Last Page |
Nov 2015 | Mar 2015 | LINK |
Milestone Posts |
|
Milestone Years |
|
Location |
|
Signature |
: |
|
| Previous Stats suggest nothing in the international game. How much can you tell about a group of players who don't play with each other regularly. Any one if them players could win the game on the day... Or mess up.
Hardaker at full back.. Why? He's one of the best we have to offer. However Tomkins is the one of the best too. Given how important this game is Tomkins England experience at full back is more important than ever.
Hardaker misses out and it's just bad luck we can't squeeze him in because he's a class act.
McNamara needs very little change to the side of last week. We need to grow as a team in such a small tournament to be ready should we get to the final. Changing key positions around would be silly in my opinion.
|
|
|
|
Rank | Posts | Team |
Player Coach | 6809 | |
Joined | Service | Reputation |
Oct 2005 | 19 years | |
Online | Last Post | Last Page |
Mar 2023 | Jan 2020 | LINK |
Milestone Posts |
|
Milestone Years |
|
Location |
|
Signature |
18302_1567366773.png [b:1crbsr9w] Toulouse for Championship in 2017, Super League in 2021!
Avignon for Championship in 2021, Super League in 2022! [/b:1crbsr9w]:d7dc4b20b2c2dd7b76ac6eac29d5604e_18302.png |
|
| This match is destined to be one of the most exciting contests in years. Better than any Super League game, with obviously so much hanging in the balance for the nation of England.
The Australian centres would not have been first choice had all Australian players been available, but they were still very good, which shows Australia's depth of talent. However a fit Jack Reed would have been more useful counter in defence for England than Shenton.
However the big irreplaceable loss for Australia, apart from the specialist props, is Johnathan Thurston, whose brilliance has been one of the cornerstones of Australian success for the past decade. Thurston's absence has hurt Australia in attack and defence more than England's loss of Sam Burgess has hurt England.
|
|
|
|
Rank | Posts | Team |
International Star | 5074 | |
Joined | Service | Reputation |
Mar 2014 | 11 years | |
Online | Last Post | Last Page |
Nov 2024 | Nov 2024 | LINK |
Milestone Posts |
|
Milestone Years |
|
Location |
|
Signature |
72289_1398805144.jpg :d7dc4b20b2c2dd7b76ac6eac29d5604e_72289.jpg |
|
| There are lots of Australian props running around in the NRL, just because Tim Sheens doesn't want to pick them is the reason they don't have specialist props available in the 4N squad, you pick what's available to you irrespective of their ability or you choose to play players out of position. Sheens has made his choice!
I'd love to have Keith Senior in the left centre but age and injury forced him to retire, Thurston is missing for similar reasons, tough!
Lastly, Leeds fans bagging and bigging to shoehorn Hardaker into the team is funny!
|
|
|
|
Rank | Posts | Team |
Moderator | 31954 | |
Joined | Service | Reputation |
Dec 2001 | 23 years | |
Online | Last Post | Last Page |
Nov 2024 | Nov 2024 | LINK |
Milestone Posts |
|
Milestone Years |
|
Location |
|
Signature |
438_1551258406.jpg "If you start listening to the fans it won't be long before you're sitting with them," - Wayne Bennett.:d7dc4b20b2c2dd7b76ac6eac29d5604e_438.jpg |
Moderator
|
| I’d make as few changes as possible to the side given that they need to get more familiar with each other as a team.
If O’Loughlin is fit he comes in for Westerman who I would drop to the bench replacing Ferres.
I’d be tempted to bring in Whitehead but only for an injured player. He misses too many tackles for my liking despite being a great attacking player.
I’d only bring Hardaker in if Tomkins gets injured.
|
|
|
|
|
Rank | Posts | Team |
Moderator | 14324 | |
Joined | Service | Reputation |
Dec 2001 | 23 years | |
Online | Last Post | Last Page |
Nov 2024 | Oct 2024 | LINK |
Milestone Posts |
|
Milestone Years |
|
Location |
|
Signature |
27_1469093054.jpg :d7dc4b20b2c2dd7b76ac6eac29d5604e_27.jpg |
Moderator
|
| Quote: Sal Paradise "I take it you have excluded the CC from those stats?'"
No. The stats include CC games.
|
|
|
|
Rank | Posts | Team |
Moderator | 14324 | |
Joined | Service | Reputation |
Dec 2001 | 23 years | |
Online | Last Post | Last Page |
Nov 2024 | Oct 2024 | LINK |
Milestone Posts |
|
Milestone Years |
|
Location |
|
Signature |
27_1469093054.jpg :d7dc4b20b2c2dd7b76ac6eac29d5604e_27.jpg |
Moderator
|
| Quote: loiner81 "A touchy Wigan fan, never! Good job I didn't post this on your forum, you'd have banned me by now, and your continued exclusion of the CC speaks volumes
The stats include CC games. HTH.
Nothing to be touchy about.
You made a ridiculous comment that was clearly wrong to try and prove your view about where Tomkins should play. The stats prove it. You should have picked something else.
|
|
|
|
|
Rank | Posts | Team |
Player Coach | 897 | No Team Selected |
Joined | Service | Reputation |
Sep 2007 | 17 years | |
Online | Last Post | Last Page |
Jan 2019 | Jan 2019 | LINK |
Milestone Posts |
|
Milestone Years |
|
Location |
|
Signature |
: |
|
| Quote: The Avenger "Lastly, Leeds fans bagging and bigging to shoehorn Hardaker into the team is funny!'"
Why ?
He's a better, all-round full-back than Tomkins currently. Far better defensively and not much to choose on attack.
|
|
|
|
Rank | Posts | Team |
Player Coach | 3101 | No Team Selected |
Joined | Service | Reputation |
Feb 2008 | 17 years | |
Online | Last Post | Last Page |
Aug 2018 | Jul 2017 | LINK |
Milestone Posts |
|
Milestone Years |
|
Location |
|
Signature |
38041_1320825214.jpg :d7dc4b20b2c2dd7b76ac6eac29d5604e_38041.jpg |
|
| Quote: miscreant "Why ?
He's a better, all-round full-back than Tomkins currently. Far better defensively and not much to choose on attack.'"
Its not about them head to head. Its what they can bring to the side together.
Tomkins stays in the squad without doubt, as he is better in the attacking line than what Hardaker is. Defence and kick returns Id have Hardaker every day of the week as he doesn't pussy out like we have seen Tomkins do on many occasions. But Tomkins in the line finding the killer pass to breach the Aussie defence is something that is vital at the top level, and he does this better than Hardaker. McNamara needs to find a way of using them both and we will be solid.
|
|
|
|
|
Rank | Posts | Team |
Club Coach | 29772 | |
Joined | Service | Reputation |
Nov 2004 | 20 years | |
Online | Last Post | Last Page |
Nov 2024 | Nov 2024 | LINK |
Milestone Posts |
|
Milestone Years |
|
Location |
|
Signature |
10919_1322084665.jpg :d7dc4b20b2c2dd7b76ac6eac29d5604e_10919.jpg |
|
| If Smith was a bit more robust in defence I'd say a logical solution to get Hardaker in the squad would be to put Smith in to hooker. He's played there a bit in his career and apart from in defence I think he's quite well suited to the position. His distribution is good and he can still get his kicking game going from there.
As it stands though I think the only way in for Hardaker is at left centre. Tomkins needs to be more committed going for high balls for sure but other then that his game was very sound.
|
|
|
|
Rank | Posts | Team |
International Star | 6848 | No Team Selected |
Joined | Service | Reputation |
Jul 2012 | 12 years | |
Online | Last Post | Last Page |
Oct 2024 | Jul 2021 | LINK |
Milestone Posts |
|
Milestone Years |
|
Location |
|
Signature |
68072_1442575000.jpg What you looking at?....Butt Head!!:d7dc4b20b2c2dd7b76ac6eac29d5604e_68072.jpg |
|
| I said all along in the lead up to the samoa game i wanted to see Hardaker at full back and Tomkins and Widdop in the halves and i had big reservations on smith at this level.To give smith his due he was one of our better players and has justified his place this week.
Despite ST's shaky moments i do feel he has to play no matter what so its as you were for this weekend no doubt.
|
|
|
|
Rank | Posts | Team |
Club Coach | 29772 | |
Joined | Service | Reputation |
Nov 2004 | 20 years | |
Online | Last Post | Last Page |
Nov 2024 | Nov 2024 | LINK |
Milestone Posts |
|
Milestone Years |
|
Location |
|
Signature |
10919_1322084665.jpg :d7dc4b20b2c2dd7b76ac6eac29d5604e_10919.jpg |
|
| Quote: RhinoNeil "Its not about them head to head. Its what they can bring to the side together.
Tomkins stays in the squad without doubt, as he is better in the attacking line than what Hardaker is. Defence and kick returns Id have Hardaker every day of the week as he doesn't pussy out like we have seen Tomkins do on many occasions. But Tomkins in the line finding the killer pass to breach the Aussie defence is something that is vital at the top level, and he does this better than Hardaker. McNamara needs to find a way of using them both and we will be solid.'"
You only need to look at Saturday to see that Tomkins certainly doesn't bottle out of making tackles. He can't keep letting balls bounce in defence though.
I think the reality is Hardaker will miss out again but it's a waste of a guy who I believe is our best back outside of Tomkins and Hall.
|
|
|
|
Rank | Posts | Team |
Player Coach | 897 | No Team Selected |
Joined | Service | Reputation |
Sep 2007 | 17 years | |
Online | Last Post | Last Page |
Jan 2019 | Jan 2019 | LINK |
Milestone Posts |
|
Milestone Years |
|
Location |
|
Signature |
: |
|
| I never advocated omitting Tomkins as he has an attacking threat that will be needed and cannot be ignored.
But Hardaker is definitely the best full-back available to England so it's Tomkins who needs to shift positions, possibly to half-back alongside Widdop.
|
|
|
|
Rank | Posts | Team |
International Board Member | 6734 | No Team Selected |
Joined | Service | Reputation |
Jan 2003 | 22 years | |
Online | Last Post | Last Page |
Jul 2021 | Jun 2021 | LINK |
Milestone Posts |
|
Milestone Years |
|
Location |
|
Signature |
3738_1390436317.gif The referee's indecision is final:d7dc4b20b2c2dd7b76ac6eac29d5604e_3738.gif |
|
| Quote: Bullseye "I’d make as few changes as possible to the side given that they need to get more familiar with each other as a team.
If O’Loughlin is fit he comes in for Westerman who I would drop to the bench replacing Ferres.
I’d be tempted to bring in Whitehead but only for an injured player. He misses too many tackles for my liking despite being a great attacking player.
I’d only bring Hardaker in if Tomkins gets injured.'"
agree with the point about westerman - he offers versatility on the bench as he can play as an extra prop, second row or loose forward. he would also be useful on the bench in case lockers breaks down mid game
|
|
|
|
Rank | Posts | Team |
Player Coach | 6809 | |
Joined | Service | Reputation |
Oct 2005 | 19 years | |
Online | Last Post | Last Page |
Mar 2023 | Jan 2020 | LINK |
Milestone Posts |
|
Milestone Years |
|
Location |
|
Signature |
18302_1567366773.png [b:1crbsr9w] Toulouse for Championship in 2017, Super League in 2021!
Avignon for Championship in 2021, Super League in 2022! [/b:1crbsr9w]:d7dc4b20b2c2dd7b76ac6eac29d5604e_18302.png |
|
| Bringing Zachary Hardaker in for Michael Shenton is the way to go.
Elliot Whitehead must play off the bench.
|
|
|
|
Rank | Posts | Team |
Moderator | 31954 | |
Joined | Service | Reputation |
Dec 2001 | 23 years | |
Online | Last Post | Last Page |
Nov 2024 | Nov 2024 | LINK |
Milestone Posts |
|
Milestone Years |
|
Location |
|
Signature |
438_1551258406.jpg "If you start listening to the fans it won't be long before you're sitting with them," - Wayne Bennett.:d7dc4b20b2c2dd7b76ac6eac29d5604e_438.jpg |
Moderator
|
| I must have been watching a different Hardaker to everyone else. This bloke sounds like a combination of Greg Inglis and Billy Slater.
The one I’ve seen is alright but not really a creative ball handler. We need Tomkins to provide that injection of creativity in the backline that he’s done for the Warriors where he’s played a key part in lots of their tries. Sure, he’s shaky under the bomb but I’d be very reluctant to make a change that would affect the whole set up of the side just so we have someone who’s better in the bomb catching dept.
Hardaker in the centres sounds alright in theory but he was shifted from that position at Leeds because he wasn’t good enough there. Putting him in that position to mark Jennings or Walker would be insanity given his lack of gametime in that position.
No fullback has looked good under the bomb in the whole tournament so far. Including Inglis. Lockyer and Johns were commenting on how difficult it is to take a high kick as the modern balls move around in the air so much.
As a last line of defence I thought Tomkins cleared up kicks well and he did very well to half stop Pritchard in full flow.
|
|
|
|
|
|